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For the uninformed, Marc Lamont Hill is a university professor and CNN contributor who was fired from CNN yesterday after his speech to the United Nations in wh

by judah 8y ago

For the uninformed, Marc Lamont Hill is a university professor and CNN contributor who was fired from CNN yesterday after his speech to the United Nations in which he argued for "a free Palestine from the river to the sea" (meaning the Jordan river to the Mediterranean sea).[0] That phrase has been repeatedly used[1] by Hamas and other terrorist organizations calling for the eradication of Israel and its Jews; if Palestine exists from the river to the sea, there is no room for Israel. This statement is a variation on the phrase which Islamic apocalyptic fundamentalists claim the Islamic Madhi will pronounce in the last days: "Jerusalem is Arab Muslim, and Palestine — all of it, from the river to the sea — is Arab Muslim." The Anti-Defamation League and other prominent Jewish organizations, both left and right leaning, condemned the speech. ADL vice president said[2], "Those calling for ‘from the river to the sea’ are calling for an end to the State of Israel...It is a shame that once again, this annual event at the United Nations does not promote constructive pathways to ‘Palestinian solidarity’ and a future of peace, but instead divisive and destructive action against Israel." Hill later claimed[3] he was not calling for the destruction of Israel. But other snippets from his speech[0] showed he in fact was arguing that the UN should permit violence against Israelis, and that peaceful protest was not the only way forward for Arabs living in and around Israel. [0]: https://twitter.com/AviMayer/status/1067985406388510727 https://twitter.com/AviMayer/status/1067985406388510727 [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_nationalism#From_the_river_to_the_sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_nationalism#From_t... [2]: https://jewishjournal.com/news/nation/242732/cnn-commentator-shouldnt-shame-palestinians-resisting-israel/ https://jewishjournal.com/news/nation/242732/cnn-commentator... [2]: https://twitter.com/marclamonthill/status/1068238076252745728 https://twitter.com/marclamonthill/status/106823807625274572...

econner 8y ago
What other snippets from the speech show he believed in permitting violence?
- cultus 8y ago
  It sure looks like another case of anti-Palestine groups conflating criticism of the apartheid policies of Israel with antisemitism. edit: As an example, look at the ADL's incredibly misleading take on the BDS movement: https://www.adl.org/what-we-do/israel/anti-israel-activity-bds https://www.adl.org/what-we-do/israel/anti-israel-activity-b...
- empath75 8y ago
  >“Contrary to western mythology, black resistance to American apartheid did not come purely through Ghandi and nonviolence," Hill said (see video below.) "Rather, slave revolts and self-defense and tactics otherwise divergent from Dr. King or Mahatma Gandhi were equally important to preserving safety and attaining freedom. If we are to operate in true solidarity with the Palestinian people, we must allow the Palestinian people the same range of opportunity and political possibility. If we are standing in solidarity with the Palestinian people, we must recognize the right of an occupied people to defend itself. We must prioritize peace, but we must not romanticize or fetishize it. We must advocate and promote nonviolence at every opportunity, but we cannot endorse a narrow politics of respectability that shames Palestinians for resisting, for refusing to do nothing in the face of state violence and ethnic cleansing
  - cultus 8y ago
    He's not defending violence. The media has a long track record of portraying protests/etc by the Palestians as violent and terroristic, even when it is not. The Palestinians are commonly terrorized or even murdered by radical Israelis, but you never hear about that. The thing is, you cannot defeat oppression by engaging in decorum politics. That's not how the Civil Rights movement happened, contrary to popular belief. Ditto for about every other successful mass movement. By insisting the Palestinians only ask nicely for their basic human rights to be upheld, one becomes complicit.
- judah 8y ago
  Here's a piece of the speech where he argues that we should permit violence against Israelis: https://twitter.com/AviMayer/status/1067985406388510727 https://twitter.com/AviMayer/status/1067985406388510727
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- so_tired 8y ago
  > "a free Palestine from the river to the sea" (meaning the Jordan river to the Mediterranean sea). This is literally calling for a genocide of every Jewish person is Israel. Enough is Enough.
  - lowry 8y ago
    Still free speech, though.
    - judah 8y ago
      Sure, he has the freedom to say it. And CNN has the freedom to terminate their contract with him.
      - lowry 8y ago
        Says the username judah :-)
        dang 8y ago
        Since we just warned you about this, I've banned this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18564254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18564254
  - rl522002 8y ago
    What you fail to note is that Palestinians use this term in the context of demolishing Israeli apartheid policies and aggression towards the Palestinians for the past 70 years. It is Israel who uprooted them from their homes, it is Israel who occupied the WB and Gaza and it continues to be the aggressor. Even after multiple UN resolutions that call for the right of return for all Palestinians who were uprooted from their homeland in 1948, Israel turns a blind eye. Maybe because they feel they can get away with it and cry anti-semitism anytime someone criticizes Israeli policies. That's exactly what you're doing here, you are trying to steer the conversation away from the reality on the ground. The reality is that Gaza is an open-air prison, Israeli forces continue to shoot UNARMED civilians at the fence while they are protesting their UN right to return to their homeland. And instead of engaging in a discussion where we can lay out the facts, you cry anti-semitism because its the easy way out hoping the world will turn away. Just to note something there, there are many many Jews who criticize Israel and they stand up for the basic right of the Palestinian people. I would suggest taking a look at JVP, If Not Now and look at the works of Noam Chomsky and Ilan Pape. I highly suggest that if anyone is interested in this topic to visit the West Bank and see for yourself the brutality and occupation the Palestinians face on a daily basis. Don't fall for what the American media will feed you, you must see it for yourself as I have in the past summer. Its also important to note that Shaun King, BLM, and multiple Black activists/movements support the Palestinian movement towards their liberation. It's also important to note that recently Israel passed a law stating the even Palestinians who carry Israeli citizenship (which make up 20% of their population) are deemed as second class citizens. Here are some links: Ilan's Pape book: https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553 https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe... JVP: https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ If Not Now: http://ifnotnowmovement.org/ http://ifnotnowmovement.org/
znhy 8y ago
For the uninformed, here is my completely biased take as a Zionist.
emehrkay 8y ago
Interesting (but not really) that twisting his words made it to HN. Watch the video of his speech, it’s ~20 minutes (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BvzSv28z97o https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BvzSv28z97o). He says, and is pretty clear, that peace is the key, but don’t idolize it because as other movements have shown, the oppressed need to fight back.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  American Colonials against the British, for example
- judah 8y ago
  It's not twisting his words. He literally said, "Palestine from the river to the sea." That means no Israel. Its why that phrase has been used repeatedly by Hamas, the Palestinian terrorist organization whose charter calls for the violent destruction of the world's only Jewish state.
safeerm 8y ago
He in no way implied that the UN should permit violence. This is completely false. What Israel has done in Palestine is countless atrocities recognized by the UN every country in the world except the US. I visited two years ago. Witnessed Israeli settlers live taking over Palestinian homes after they were kicked out by the police. The systemic oppression of Palestinians by the Israeli government and supported by the US must end.
- judah 8y ago
  He absolutely implied, and the comments in this thread document precisely that. More importantly, he stated "Palestine from the river to the sea", which is an anti-Semitic dog whistle calling for the eradication of Israel. It's a statement repeatedly used by Hamas, the anti-Semitic terrorist organization whose charter calls for Israel's violent destruction.

by judah 8y ago

econner 8y ago

What other snippets from the speech show he believed in permitting violence?

cultus 8y ago
It sure looks like another case of anti-Palestine groups conflating criticism of the apartheid policies of Israel with antisemitism. edit: As an example, look at the ADL's incredibly misleading take on the BDS movement: https://www.adl.org/what-we-do/israel/anti-israel-activity-bds https://www.adl.org/what-we-do/israel/anti-israel-activity-b...
empath75 8y ago
>“Contrary to western mythology, black resistance to American apartheid did not come purely through Ghandi and nonviolence," Hill said (see video below.) "Rather, slave revolts and self-defense and tactics otherwise divergent from Dr. King or Mahatma Gandhi were equally important to preserving safety and attaining freedom. If we are to operate in true solidarity with the Palestinian people, we must allow the Palestinian people the same range of opportunity and political possibility. If we are standing in solidarity with the Palestinian people, we must recognize the right of an occupied people to defend itself. We must prioritize peace, but we must not romanticize or fetishize it. We must advocate and promote nonviolence at every opportunity, but we cannot endorse a narrow politics of respectability that shames Palestinians for resisting, for refusing to do nothing in the face of state violence and ethnic cleansing
- cultus 8y ago
  He's not defending violence. The media has a long track record of portraying protests/etc by the Palestians as violent and terroristic, even when it is not. The Palestinians are commonly terrorized or even murdered by radical Israelis, but you never hear about that. The thing is, you cannot defeat oppression by engaging in decorum politics. That's not how the Civil Rights movement happened, contrary to popular belief. Ditto for about every other successful mass movement. By insisting the Palestinians only ask nicely for their basic human rights to be upheld, one becomes complicit.
judah 8y ago
Here's a piece of the speech where he argues that we should permit violence against Israelis: https://twitter.com/AviMayer/status/1067985406388510727 https://twitter.com/AviMayer/status/1067985406388510727
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
so_tired 8y ago
> "a free Palestine from the river to the sea" (meaning the Jordan river to the Mediterranean sea). This is literally calling for a genocide of every Jewish person is Israel. Enough is Enough.
- lowry 8y ago
  Still free speech, though.
  - judah 8y ago
    Sure, he has the freedom to say it. And CNN has the freedom to terminate their contract with him.
    - lowry 8y ago
      Says the username judah :-)
      - dang 8y ago
        Since we just warned you about this, I've banned this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18564254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18564254
- rl522002 8y ago
  What you fail to note is that Palestinians use this term in the context of demolishing Israeli apartheid policies and aggression towards the Palestinians for the past 70 years. It is Israel who uprooted them from their homes, it is Israel who occupied the WB and Gaza and it continues to be the aggressor. Even after multiple UN resolutions that call for the right of return for all Palestinians who were uprooted from their homeland in 1948, Israel turns a blind eye. Maybe because they feel they can get away with it and cry anti-semitism anytime someone criticizes Israeli policies. That's exactly what you're doing here, you are trying to steer the conversation away from the reality on the ground. The reality is that Gaza is an open-air prison, Israeli forces continue to shoot UNARMED civilians at the fence while they are protesting their UN right to return to their homeland. And instead of engaging in a discussion where we can lay out the facts, you cry anti-semitism because its the easy way out hoping the world will turn away. Just to note something there, there are many many Jews who criticize Israel and they stand up for the basic right of the Palestinian people. I would suggest taking a look at JVP, If Not Now and look at the works of Noam Chomsky and Ilan Pape. I highly suggest that if anyone is interested in this topic to visit the West Bank and see for yourself the brutality and occupation the Palestinians face on a daily basis. Don't fall for what the American media will feed you, you must see it for yourself as I have in the past summer. Its also important to note that Shaun King, BLM, and multiple Black activists/movements support the Palestinian movement towards their liberation. It's also important to note that recently Israel passed a law stating the even Palestinians who carry Israeli citizenship (which make up 20% of their population) are deemed as second class citizens. Here are some links: Ilan's Pape book: https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553 https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe... JVP: https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ If Not Now: http://ifnotnowmovement.org/ http://ifnotnowmovement.org/

znhy 8y ago

For the uninformed, here is my completely biased take as a Zionist.

emehrkay 8y ago

Interesting (but not really) that twisting his words made it to HN. Watch the video of his speech, it’s ~20 minutes (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BvzSv28z97o https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BvzSv28z97o). He says, and is pretty clear, that peace is the key, but don’t idolize it because as other movements have shown, the oppressed need to fight back.

JoeAltmaier 8y ago
American Colonials against the British, for example
judah 8y ago
It's not twisting his words. He literally said, "Palestine from the river to the sea." That means no Israel. Its why that phrase has been used repeatedly by Hamas, the Palestinian terrorist organization whose charter calls for the violent destruction of the world's only Jewish state.

safeerm 8y ago

He in no way implied that the UN should permit violence. This is completely false. What Israel has done in Palestine is countless atrocities recognized by the UN every country in the world except the US. I visited two years ago. Witnessed Israeli settlers live taking over Palestinian homes after they were kicked out by the police. The systemic oppression of Palestinians by the Israeli government and supported by the US must end.

judah 8y ago
He absolutely implied, and the comments in this thread document precisely that. More importantly, he stated "Palestine from the river to the sea", which is an anti-Semitic dog whistle calling for the eradication of Israel. It's a statement repeatedly used by Hamas, the anti-Semitic terrorist organization whose charter calls for Israel's violent destruction.