5 ms·

> A waiter literally works for you during the meal you tip for. No, they work for the restaurant. Their job is to relay orders from me to the kitchen and bar.

TomMarius 8y ago
And you think that a human alternative to conveyor belt is worth more than the current minimal wage? You got the whole thing wrong, and you managed to insult every waiter and waitress in the process: A waiter does so much more than that. They generally take care of you - they help you to choose your places to your liking, undress, seat, they recommend food based on their expertise and clever judging of their client, and so on - they generally take care of you, and that can and is (and should) way more complex than being a human conveyor belt. The actual argument is whether this job is a job done to the customer or to the restaurant (because it can be thought of as a whole package service or their image). Americans think that the waiter will help a client more if the client is the person who pays them - literally, with actual cash changing hands. Other people don't. I'm from such country and sometimes it leads to horrendous results, however most of the time it's OK - yeah, "OK", never great, so I definitely can see the point the Americans have. Overall, IMO there are places where human staff is appropriate (fine dining places, brewery, upclass cafe...) - tipping is appropriate here. Of course there are places where the point is to obtain a plate and eat everything as soon as possible so you can be gone - but IMO people shouldn't serve the plates at these places.
- taneq 8y ago
  They don't do any of that. Waitpeople aren't magical happiness-producers, they're just pleasant and make sure your glass is refilled and ask if you need anything. Which would just be my Australian experience talking if it hadn't been exactly the same when I was in the U.S. Waitstaff aren't magical concierges of euphoria, they're just nice and bring you more coffee. As you say, the real difference is whether the waitperson is an employee of the restaurant who is paid by them to look after you, or whether they're an independent contractor who resells the kitchen to you at the table as a service. The service produced is generally the same, IME, but in the U.S. model you have to negotiate with two different contractors while each is trying to push the costs onto the other. Ugh.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    Cute metaphor. But waitpeople can't actually set their price. They don't say "You want more coffee? How will that affect my tip?" In a tip economy they are what they are - poor supplicants begging for your scraps. They have no power over the kitchen nor much over you, since they get their feedback after they've made their 'pitch' not before.
- AllegedAlec 8y ago
  Let me rephrase: the waiters are the customer facing employees of a restaurant. They are no more working for the customer than a till worker in a shop is, or a help-desk employee is. Therefore, the onus is on the restaurant to provide compensation for their time, not on the customer.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    Except in a free market, the customer is free to compensate the waitstaff at will. Which enables tipping whether we want it to or not. And motivates the waitperson to behave differently than a simple employee.
- daxorid 8y ago
  Waiters don't do ANY of what you suggest they do. 1. They can't choose a place to your liking, because they are assigned to specific zones of the restaurant. At best, you can request the host/hostess for a particular location, at which point your waiter is selected for you by virtue of your location. 2. They don't . . . undress you. You may be thinking of a brothel, not a restaurant. This claim is probably the most bizzare. 3. Again, it is generally one of the host staff that does the actual seating. 4. If asked for a recommendation, at best you'll get what they prefer eating, or a generic "what's popular" suggestion. In no way do they judge their client (On what? They just barely met you!) and immediately recommend that you'd love the lobster bisque because . . . your hair is brown.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    I think I'm used to visiting different sort of places than you do (but I don't mean snob places, most of the ones I frequent are affordable for a working university student). >2. They don't . . . undress you. You may be thinking of a brothel, not a restaurant. This claim is probably the most bizzare. I'm not native english speaker. What is bizzare about waiter taking your coat and carrying it to the coatroom, "helping" you off it in the process? It's act of courtesy.

TomMarius 8y ago

And you think that a human alternative to conveyor belt is worth more than the current minimal wage? You got the whole thing wrong, and you managed to insult every waiter and waitress in the process: A waiter does so much more than that. They generally take care of you - they help you to choose your places to your liking, undress, seat, they recommend food based on their expertise and clever judging of their client, and so on - they generally take care of you, and that can and is (and should) way more complex than being a human conveyor belt. The actual argument is whether this job is a job done to the customer or to the restaurant (because it can be thought of as a whole package service or their image). Americans think that the waiter will help a client more if the client is the person who pays them - literally, with actual cash changing hands. Other people don't. I'm from such country and sometimes it leads to horrendous results, however most of the time it's OK - yeah, "OK", never great, so I definitely can see the point the Americans have. Overall, IMO there are places where human staff is appropriate (fine dining places, brewery, upclass cafe...) - tipping is appropriate here. Of course there are places where the point is to obtain a plate and eat everything as soon as possible so you can be gone - but IMO people shouldn't serve the plates at these places.

taneq 8y ago
They don't do any of that. Waitpeople aren't magical happiness-producers, they're just pleasant and make sure your glass is refilled and ask if you need anything. Which would just be my Australian experience talking if it hadn't been exactly the same when I was in the U.S. Waitstaff aren't magical concierges of euphoria, they're just nice and bring you more coffee. As you say, the real difference is whether the waitperson is an employee of the restaurant who is paid by them to look after you, or whether they're an independent contractor who resells the kitchen to you at the table as a service. The service produced is generally the same, IME, but in the U.S. model you have to negotiate with two different contractors while each is trying to push the costs onto the other. Ugh.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  Cute metaphor. But waitpeople can't actually set their price. They don't say "You want more coffee? How will that affect my tip?" In a tip economy they are what they are - poor supplicants begging for your scraps. They have no power over the kitchen nor much over you, since they get their feedback after they've made their 'pitch' not before.
AllegedAlec 8y ago
Let me rephrase: the waiters are the customer facing employees of a restaurant. They are no more working for the customer than a till worker in a shop is, or a help-desk employee is. Therefore, the onus is on the restaurant to provide compensation for their time, not on the customer.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  Except in a free market, the customer is free to compensate the waitstaff at will. Which enables tipping whether we want it to or not. And motivates the waitperson to behave differently than a simple employee.
daxorid 8y ago
Waiters don't do ANY of what you suggest they do. 1. They can't choose a place to your liking, because they are assigned to specific zones of the restaurant. At best, you can request the host/hostess for a particular location, at which point your waiter is selected for you by virtue of your location. 2. They don't . . . undress you. You may be thinking of a brothel, not a restaurant. This claim is probably the most bizzare. 3. Again, it is generally one of the host staff that does the actual seating. 4. If asked for a recommendation, at best you'll get what they prefer eating, or a generic "what's popular" suggestion. In no way do they judge their client (On what? They just barely met you!) and immediately recommend that you'd love the lobster bisque because . . . your hair is brown.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  I think I'm used to visiting different sort of places than you do (but I don't mean snob places, most of the ones I frequent are affordable for a working university student). >2. They don't . . . undress you. You may be thinking of a brothel, not a restaurant. This claim is probably the most bizzare. I'm not native english speaker. What is bizzare about waiter taking your coat and carrying it to the coatroom, "helping" you off it in the process? It's act of courtesy.