5 ms·

A Week in Xinjiang’s Absolute Surveillance State

44 points by crunchiebones 8y ago

walrus01 8y ago
Considering the recent Reuters research: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-camps-china/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-... > "One other thing that is very visible in its absence. Young men. You see plenty of people in the streets: lots of children, lots of mothers of children, and many young women, especially running restaurants and small shops. Old people in their typical Uyghur garb, men with their hats and beards, and women with their head coverings. Oddly, many middle-aged ladies covered their hair, but wore high-heeled shoes. But very few young men. The ones we did see were the mellow kind, the sort of boy who was a good student in class. I’ve traveled extensively around the world, and everywhere you can see groups of strong, tall, young men just hanging around, sort of looking for trouble. Young men do that. Young men hanging around doing nothing but looking intimidating exist everywhere, including China, even Japan or Singapore. But not in Xinjiang. As for where they are, your guess is as good as mine." I think Reuters found where they are located.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- chewz 8y ago
  It is due to Chinese intolerance of drugs which comes from their XIX century experience. In West you achieve the same means (mind control and social stability) with video games and legalized marijuana.
tomohawk 8y ago
> before some stupid white guy tries to be a hero, provokes the Chinese government, and this beautiful region gets the Tibet treatment. Way to denigrate by gender and race! Aside from that, the architect of the police state in this region developed these techniques in Tibet, and the understanding is that once they are perfected here, they will be applied to the rest of the country.
- mc32 8y ago
  It’s an unfortunate phrase (but tongue in cheek) and it’s worth reading beyond that. Author writes in a very conversational style but full of anecdotes and insights. Id say it’s worth reading. Overall gives an impression of what one might expect there as a visitor as well as projecting if one lived there.
- c1yd3i 8y ago
  I think you're overreacting. I'm a white guy, and this didn't stand out to me one bit. He actually makes a good point.
  - tomohawk 8y ago
    Let's try the substitution test "before some stupid black girl tries to be a hero" It's usually best to not pair gender and race with a pejorative.
    - throwaway565r 8y ago
      Isn’t the author a white male? If the author was a black woman, I think your substituted statement would be more of a commentary on how she perceives her own role in society. There are many Black, Latino, Asian, and White writers that will comment on their own ethnic and cultural background in their writing.
    - taobility 8y ago
      only apply to American, and the rest of world don't give a concern for this.
- throwaway565r 8y ago
  Interestingly, the chairman of Xinjiang is Shohrat Zakir, an ethnic Muslim Uighur who was sent to a re-education camp back in the 1970s.
  - baybal2 8y ago
    Re-educated he was, for sure
RileyJames 8y ago
> I have no agenda, I love China. > Yet again, the Chinese government congratulates itself in having solved terrorism without war, and credit where it’s due, it has. “The People’s War on Terror” and sending a million people to jail... > Xinjiang appears to have no criminality whatsoever, and the police in the streets are unarmed. Meanwhile France has soldiers, not police, patrolling the streets of Paris. This level of naivety is absurd. He seems to have an incredible ability to look without seeing. Or lacks the capability to think critically. Let’s summarise the entire article: - people go to xinjian as tourists - people are treated as tourists - people see xinjian as a tourist would, while being treated as a tourist. I was in Turkey shortly after the latest coup. I wasn’t stopped by ANY police. I wasn’t arrested even ONCE. There’s obviously no problems there for those in the political minority, because I had such a nice time....
- throwaway565r 8y ago
  That million number gets thrown around but from what I’ve read, it’s just a guess. For perspective, the US has about 2.3 million in “rehabilitation centers” so a million doesn’t seem outlandish I suppose.
  - RileyJames 8y ago
    You’re right, it’s an estimate. Considering there are approx 10M Uighur people in Xinjiang, even a conservative 500k in detention is 1 in 20. He mentioned not seeing many young Uighur men on the streets. I wonder where they’re hanging out...
    - brorfred 8y ago
      While this estimate is eye opening it has to be compared to the ratio of black men in prison in the US, which is about 7%. One could argue that both high incarceration rates are results of policies to keep certain ethnic groups in control. (war on drugs as a continuation of Jim Crow laws in the US)
- sthielen 8y ago
  Agreed. For a less reductive perspective, I've found Emily Feng's reporting for the FT to be informative [0,1,2]. I'd be interested in other reading recommendations, if anyone has them. [0] https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340 https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0... [1] https://www.ft.com/content/721192f4-a1fa-11e8-85da-eeb7a9ce36e4 https://www.ft.com/content/721192f4-a1fa-11e8-85da-eeb7a9ce3... [2] https://www.ft.com/content/f0d3223a-7f4d-11e8-bc55-50daf11b720d https://www.ft.com/content/f0d3223a-7f4d-11e8-bc55-50daf11b7...
vondur 8y ago
I can't imagine how expensive it must be to keep this type of omnipresent security running 24/7. I'm guessing if the Chinese economy ever starts to take a downward hit, it'll be something like this that gets the axe.
- RileyJames 8y ago
  You don’t need to imagine. $9b per year (USD). https://www.ft.com/content/aa4465aa-2349-11e8-ae48-60d3531b7d11 https://www.ft.com/content/aa4465aa-2349-11e8-ae48-60d3531b7... This chart helps too: https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-us.s3.amazonaws.com%2Faf3b497c-25f4-11e8-b27e-cc62a39d57a0?source=next&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&width=490 https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/htt...
  - vondur 8y ago
    Wow. That’s far less than I imagined.

44 points by crunchiebones 8y ago

Considering the recent Reuters research: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-camps-china/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-... > "One other thing that is very visible in its absence. Young men. You see plenty of people in the streets: lots of children, lots of mothers of children, and many young women, especially running restaurants and small shops. Old people in their typical Uyghur garb, men with their hats and beards, and women with their head coverings. Oddly, many middle-aged ladies covered their hair, but wore high-heeled shoes. But very few young men. The ones we did see were the mellow kind, the sort of boy who was a good student in class. I’ve traveled extensively around the world, and everywhere you can see groups of strong, tall, young men just hanging around, sort of looking for trouble. Young men do that. Young men hanging around doing nothing but looking intimidating exist everywhere, including China, even Japan or Singapore. But not in Xinjiang. As for where they are, your guess is as good as mine." I think Reuters found where they are located.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
chewz 8y ago
It is due to Chinese intolerance of drugs which comes from their XIX century experience. In West you achieve the same means (mind control and social stability) with video games and legalized marijuana.

tomohawk 8y ago

> before some stupid white guy tries to be a hero, provokes the Chinese government, and this beautiful region gets the Tibet treatment. Way to denigrate by gender and race! Aside from that, the architect of the police state in this region developed these techniques in Tibet, and the understanding is that once they are perfected here, they will be applied to the rest of the country.

mc32 8y ago
It’s an unfortunate phrase (but tongue in cheek) and it’s worth reading beyond that. Author writes in a very conversational style but full of anecdotes and insights. Id say it’s worth reading. Overall gives an impression of what one might expect there as a visitor as well as projecting if one lived there.
c1yd3i 8y ago
I think you're overreacting. I'm a white guy, and this didn't stand out to me one bit. He actually makes a good point.
- tomohawk 8y ago
  Let's try the substitution test "before some stupid black girl tries to be a hero" It's usually best to not pair gender and race with a pejorative.
  - throwaway565r 8y ago
    Isn’t the author a white male? If the author was a black woman, I think your substituted statement would be more of a commentary on how she perceives her own role in society. There are many Black, Latino, Asian, and White writers that will comment on their own ethnic and cultural background in their writing.
  - taobility 8y ago
    only apply to American, and the rest of world don't give a concern for this.
throwaway565r 8y ago
Interestingly, the chairman of Xinjiang is Shohrat Zakir, an ethnic Muslim Uighur who was sent to a re-education camp back in the 1970s.
- baybal2 8y ago
  Re-educated he was, for sure

RileyJames 8y ago

> I have no agenda, I love China. > Yet again, the Chinese government congratulates itself in having solved terrorism without war, and credit where it’s due, it has. “The People’s War on Terror” and sending a million people to jail... > Xinjiang appears to have no criminality whatsoever, and the police in the streets are unarmed. Meanwhile France has soldiers, not police, patrolling the streets of Paris. This level of naivety is absurd. He seems to have an incredible ability to look without seeing. Or lacks the capability to think critically. Let’s summarise the entire article: - people go to xinjian as tourists - people are treated as tourists - people see xinjian as a tourist would, while being treated as a tourist. I was in Turkey shortly after the latest coup. I wasn’t stopped by ANY police. I wasn’t arrested even ONCE. There’s obviously no problems there for those in the political minority, because I had such a nice time....

throwaway565r 8y ago
That million number gets thrown around but from what I’ve read, it’s just a guess. For perspective, the US has about 2.3 million in “rehabilitation centers” so a million doesn’t seem outlandish I suppose.
- RileyJames 8y ago
  You’re right, it’s an estimate. Considering there are approx 10M Uighur people in Xinjiang, even a conservative 500k in detention is 1 in 20. He mentioned not seeing many young Uighur men on the streets. I wonder where they’re hanging out...
  - brorfred 8y ago
    While this estimate is eye opening it has to be compared to the ratio of black men in prison in the US, which is about 7%. One could argue that both high incarceration rates are results of policies to keep certain ethnic groups in control. (war on drugs as a continuation of Jim Crow laws in the US)
sthielen 8y ago
Agreed. For a less reductive perspective, I've found Emily Feng's reporting for the FT to be informative [0,1,2]. I'd be interested in other reading recommendations, if anyone has them. [0] https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340 https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0... [1] https://www.ft.com/content/721192f4-a1fa-11e8-85da-eeb7a9ce36e4 https://www.ft.com/content/721192f4-a1fa-11e8-85da-eeb7a9ce3... [2] https://www.ft.com/content/f0d3223a-7f4d-11e8-bc55-50daf11b720d https://www.ft.com/content/f0d3223a-7f4d-11e8-bc55-50daf11b7...

vondur 8y ago

I can't imagine how expensive it must be to keep this type of omnipresent security running 24/7. I'm guessing if the Chinese economy ever starts to take a downward hit, it'll be something like this that gets the axe.

RileyJames 8y ago
You don’t need to imagine. $9b per year (USD). https://www.ft.com/content/aa4465aa-2349-11e8-ae48-60d3531b7d11 https://www.ft.com/content/aa4465aa-2349-11e8-ae48-60d3531b7... This chart helps too: https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-us.s3.amazonaws.com%2Faf3b497c-25f4-11e8-b27e-cc62a39d57a0?source=next&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&width=490 https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/htt...
- vondur 8y ago
  Wow. That’s far less than I imagined.