6 ms·

Is anyone else sick of dystopian stuff? I want to read something where... sure, there are problems, but where people are out there doing difficult, adventurous

by davidw 8y ago

Is anyone else sick of dystopian stuff? I want to read something where... sure, there are problems, but where people are out there doing difficult, adventurous and good things. Something maybe even kind of motivational. Or at best, just nice escapist stories without all the doom and gloom. If I want to read about stressful, bad, evil things, I'll pick up a newspaper.

ahartmetz 8y ago
Try Iain Banks, though IMO the world-building is better than the plots.
- freeone3000 8y ago
  A world where humans have given up free will, all desire and drive, and live out meaningless lives noticed by no one (ffs, the greatest game player of the galaxy was worried he'd be forgotten in TWO YEARS - and he was, except by people who knew him personally!)? I do not think life as a pet of a machine is a happy future for humanity.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    What is happy future? Is it the same for you aa for others? Should we still group ourselves to one/more big groups, or should we maybe focus on individuals more, and let people group if they want to do so?
  - arethuza 8y ago
    I don't really recognise that description of the Culture - they have plenty of freedom (including the freedom to leave the Culture as individuals or groups) and to do practically anything they want (PoG has game players, large scale landscape designers). And there is plenty of desire and passion by the inhabitants of the Culture and they feel the need as individuals to be more "worthy" there is Contact or even Special Circumstances. What's not to like?
  - AllegedAlec 8y ago
    Pretty much this. Horza Gorbachul was completely correct in his assessment of the Culture.
- _carl_jung 8y ago
  Not to be pedantic, but I think you mean Iain M Banks. Same person but the stuff he writes under Iain Banks isn't sci-fi.
  - ahartmetz 8y ago
    Yes, thanks. I knew about the two names he uses but couldn't be bothered to look up which is which.
wtracy 8y ago
And this is how science fiction authors have been shooting themselves in the foot. The golden age of science fiction, the era when science fiction was most popular with the public, occurred when most of that fiction had a positive outlook on the future. I don't think that's coincidence. To any aspiring authors out there: If you want to stand out and be successful, write stories that show a path to successfully overcoming the obstacles society faces today. If you can successfully do that in a way that doesn't come across as trite and condescending, then you are onto something.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- AstralStorm 8y ago
  The difference is that this future was never delivered. Pessimism is expected after that. Worse, showing how obstacles are overcome and not seeing it applied in real world is soul crushing. This is often because politics turned from initially being a way of solving problems to a popularity ascend machismo contest - and it infects everything.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    But fiction is about setting expectation. If popular works start to show that it is possible for political organizations to not be full of shit, people will expect that, and exert extra pressure. This beats the current attitude of "politics is a shitshow, news at 11; I don't care about this anymore".
    - JetSpiegel 8y ago
      It's not so clear cut. If fiction veers too much into "politics is great!" while "the real world" shows otherwise, it can be dismissed as asskissing. Fiction can only nudge the public opinion.
      - TeMPOraL 8y ago
ravenstine 8y ago
That and the endless barage of stores about antiheroes and thugs we are supposed to sympathize with. It seems we can't get enough of dystopias and fictional criminals because they are mirrors to our reality; dystopias unveil what's beneath the veneer of our society, and antiheroes represent the freedom people wish they had that they willingly traded for safety, which fictional bad guys disregard. Yes, I am getting sick of it all not just for the quantity and repetition, but the fact that it seems people enjoy this shit without the sort of curiosity such stories should invoke. Most of it is gratuitous.
jonnybgood 8y ago
Thinking of dystopian authors and something motivational I immediately thought of Island by Aldous Huxley.
concordDance 8y ago
Read Perilious Waif? Adventure in a sci fi future where the vat majority are far better off but individuals can still make a difference.
TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
Absolutely sick of it. Not everyone is writing about dystopias, but the inflection point isn't quite here yet.
icebraining 8y ago
As what as become my favourite text on science fiction (by Ursula Le Guin) says, Science fiction is often described, and even defined, as extrapolative. the science fiction writer is supposed to take a trend or phenomenon of the here-and-now, purify and intensify it for dramatic effect, and extend it into the future. "If this goes on, this is what will happen." A prediction is made. Method and results much resemble those of a scientist who feeds large doses of a purified and concentrated food additive to mice, in order to predict what may happen to people who eat it in small quantities for a long time. The outcome seems almost inevitably to be cancer. So does the outcome of extrapolation. Strictly extrapolative works of science fiction generally arrive about where the Club of Rome arrives: somewhere between the gradual extinction of human liberty and the total extinction of terrestrial life. (...) http://theliterarylink.com/leguinintro.html http://theliterarylink.com/leguinintro.html
TeMPOraL 8y ago
Yes, I'm totally sick of it. I remember an article, whose title essentially summed up my view on this space - "Star Trek: The Next Generation Was the Last Sci-Fi Show Hopeful About the Future"[0]. I grew up on ST:TNG, and I sorely miss the ideas communicated there. That people can organize for common good. That such organizations, even large and bureaucratic, can be very competent and effective. That individuals can strive to better themselves, both morally and in terms of competence. That the default assumption about your colleagues/teammates is that they're competent in what they do. That we can all cooperate, instead of defect. Speaking of competence, I wish another cliché would die too. That the world is filled with idiots. It's also very popular, and I also destructive to the fabric of society. But I'll leave elaborating on it to David Brin[1]. -- [0] - https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a31206/star-trek-the-next-generation-future/ https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a31206/star-trek-th... [1] - http://www.davidbrin.com/nonfiction/idiotplot.html http://www.davidbrin.com/nonfiction/idiotplot.html
Toboe 8y ago
>I want to read something where... sure, there are problems, but where people are out there doing difficult, adventurous and good things. Have you tried Walkaway? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkaway_(Doctorow_novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkaway_(Doctorow_novel)
craftyguy 8y ago
Yep. I've pretty much given up on fiction at this point, and when I want good stories I read non-fiction accounts of historical events, people, discoveries, etc. There's material out there for practically every field of interest, region of the world, culture, religion, whatever. I've yet to get bored.
CM30 8y ago
Yeah, I'm sick of it too. Which is why basically every piece of fiction I read/watch/play in game form is escapist and not tied to real world social issues or affairs. (or is a goofy comedy that doesn't take itself seriously at all).

by davidw 8y ago

ahartmetz 8y ago

Try Iain Banks, though IMO the world-building is better than the plots.

freeone3000 8y ago
A world where humans have given up free will, all desire and drive, and live out meaningless lives noticed by no one (ffs, the greatest game player of the galaxy was worried he'd be forgotten in TWO YEARS - and he was, except by people who knew him personally!)? I do not think life as a pet of a machine is a happy future for humanity.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  What is happy future? Is it the same for you aa for others? Should we still group ourselves to one/more big groups, or should we maybe focus on individuals more, and let people group if they want to do so?
- arethuza 8y ago
  I don't really recognise that description of the Culture - they have plenty of freedom (including the freedom to leave the Culture as individuals or groups) and to do practically anything they want (PoG has game players, large scale landscape designers). And there is plenty of desire and passion by the inhabitants of the Culture and they feel the need as individuals to be more "worthy" there is Contact or even Special Circumstances. What's not to like?
- AllegedAlec 8y ago
  Pretty much this. Horza Gorbachul was completely correct in his assessment of the Culture.
_carl_jung 8y ago
Not to be pedantic, but I think you mean Iain M Banks. Same person but the stuff he writes under Iain Banks isn't sci-fi.
- ahartmetz 8y ago
  Yes, thanks. I knew about the two names he uses but couldn't be bothered to look up which is which.

wtracy 8y ago

And this is how science fiction authors have been shooting themselves in the foot. The golden age of science fiction, the era when science fiction was most popular with the public, occurred when most of that fiction had a positive outlook on the future. I don't think that's coincidence. To any aspiring authors out there: If you want to stand out and be successful, write stories that show a path to successfully overcoming the obstacles society faces today. If you can successfully do that in a way that doesn't come across as trite and condescending, then you are onto something.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
AstralStorm 8y ago
The difference is that this future was never delivered. Pessimism is expected after that. Worse, showing how obstacles are overcome and not seeing it applied in real world is soul crushing. This is often because politics turned from initially being a way of solving problems to a popularity ascend machismo contest - and it infects everything.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  But fiction is about setting expectation. If popular works start to show that it is possible for political organizations to not be full of shit, people will expect that, and exert extra pressure. This beats the current attitude of "politics is a shitshow, news at 11; I don't care about this anymore".
  - JetSpiegel 8y ago
    It's not so clear cut. If fiction veers too much into "politics is great!" while "the real world" shows otherwise, it can be dismissed as asskissing. Fiction can only nudge the public opinion.
    - TeMPOraL 8y ago

ravenstine 8y ago

That and the endless barage of stores about antiheroes and thugs we are supposed to sympathize with. It seems we can't get enough of dystopias and fictional criminals because they are mirrors to our reality; dystopias unveil what's beneath the veneer of our society, and antiheroes represent the freedom people wish they had that they willingly traded for safety, which fictional bad guys disregard. Yes, I am getting sick of it all not just for the quantity and repetition, but the fact that it seems people enjoy this shit without the sort of curiosity such stories should invoke. Most of it is gratuitous.

jonnybgood 8y ago

Thinking of dystopian authors and something motivational I immediately thought of Island by Aldous Huxley.

concordDance 8y ago

Read Perilious Waif? Adventure in a sci fi future where the vat majority are far better off but individuals can still make a difference.

TheOtherHobbes 8y ago

Absolutely sick of it. Not everyone is writing about dystopias, but the inflection point isn't quite here yet.

icebraining 8y ago

As what as become my favourite text on science fiction (by Ursula Le Guin) says, Science fiction is often described, and even defined, as extrapolative. the science fiction writer is supposed to take a trend or phenomenon of the here-and-now, purify and intensify it for dramatic effect, and extend it into the future. "If this goes on, this is what will happen." A prediction is made. Method and results much resemble those of a scientist who feeds large doses of a purified and concentrated food additive to mice, in order to predict what may happen to people who eat it in small quantities for a long time. The outcome seems almost inevitably to be cancer. So does the outcome of extrapolation. Strictly extrapolative works of science fiction generally arrive about where the Club of Rome arrives: somewhere between the gradual extinction of human liberty and the total extinction of terrestrial life. (...) http://theliterarylink.com/leguinintro.html http://theliterarylink.com/leguinintro.html

TeMPOraL 8y ago

Yes, I'm totally sick of it. I remember an article, whose title essentially summed up my view on this space - "Star Trek: The Next Generation Was the Last Sci-Fi Show Hopeful About the Future"[0]. I grew up on ST:TNG, and I sorely miss the ideas communicated there. That people can organize for common good. That such organizations, even large and bureaucratic, can be very competent and effective. That individuals can strive to better themselves, both morally and in terms of competence. That the default assumption about your colleagues/teammates is that they're competent in what they do. That we can all cooperate, instead of defect. Speaking of competence, I wish another cliché would die too. That the world is filled with idiots. It's also very popular, and I also destructive to the fabric of society. But I'll leave elaborating on it to David Brin[1]. -- [0] - https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a31206/star-trek-the-next-generation-future/ https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a31206/star-trek-th... [1] - http://www.davidbrin.com/nonfiction/idiotplot.html http://www.davidbrin.com/nonfiction/idiotplot.html

Toboe 8y ago

>I want to read something where... sure, there are problems, but where people are out there doing difficult, adventurous and good things. Have you tried Walkaway? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkaway_(Doctorow_novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkaway_(Doctorow_novel)

craftyguy 8y ago

Yep. I've pretty much given up on fiction at this point, and when I want good stories I read non-fiction accounts of historical events, people, discoveries, etc. There's material out there for practically every field of interest, region of the world, culture, religion, whatever. I've yet to get bored.

CM30 8y ago

Yeah, I'm sick of it too. Which is why basically every piece of fiction I read/watch/play in game form is escapist and not tied to real world social issues or affairs. (or is a goofy comedy that doesn't take itself seriously at all).