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It's an interesting study for sure. But, as part of the background, it would have been useful to point out that much dystopian fiction is intentionally politica

It's an interesting study for sure. But, as part of the background, it would have been useful to point out that much dystopian fiction is intentionally political. Rod Serling had initially proposed a program of political commentary, but CBS said "no way". So we got The Twilight Zone. George Romero's Night of the Living Dead series was also intentionally political. In other words, much dystopian fiction is actually long-form propaganda.

beaconstudios 8y ago
I think a lot of it is rooted in the psychological warfare between Western liberalism and communism from the cold war onwards. Hell, postmodernism is largely based on socialist (actual socialist, not "left of libertarian") critiques of liberalism, and it seems to me that the postmodern tradition of criticising everything without providing a viable alternative is the root of a lot of dystopian ideas. Human history has been on the slow crawl from worse to better for a long time. We're living in the greatest era in history, but we still act like it's a horrible time to be alive.
- jeffreyrogers 8y ago
  What postmodernists are you referring to? I thought that as well, but after reading some actual postmodernists like Richard Rorty and Foucault I find it hard to support that idea any more. Most postmodern thinkers are left of center, sure, but I think that reflects a bias in academia more than a secret agenda.
  - beaconstudios 8y ago
    I'm thinking Derrida, Heidegger, and Horkheimer. I don't think there's any secret agenda going on, more that postmodernism - being built within a Marxist intellectual framework (not a conspiracy, this is well documented) - is inherently oriented towards critiquing and bringing down Western liberalism and capitalism. It doesn't take much effort to go from deconstructionism or critical theory to the kind of dystopian imagery we're talking about. I mean, most dystopian fiction is based on effectively "late-stage capitalism" conditions, and how such a system would degrade.
emiliobumachar 8y ago
Interesting take. Are there any works of dystopian fiction that someone here thinks could be considered anti-democracy propaganda?
- mirimir 8y ago
  Democracy isn't too popular with Azimov, I think. And now that I think of it, Banks also doesn't like it. Humans and AI Minds have equal rights. And they exist in a state of benevolent anarchy. There are organizations, but decision making is not at all democratic. Maybe closer to consensus-based. Also, humans and other organic beings come off as limited and irresponsible. Needing guidance. So the Minds are really running things. Indeed, the Culture is rather a civilization of Minds, which keeps humans around for moral and sentimental reasons. It creates stuff for them without effective limit. For example, any Culture citizen can have their own planet, orbital, ship or whatever. Abundance has destroyed the concept of money. And the Minds keep them safe, from themselves and from others.

beaconstudios 8y ago

I think a lot of it is rooted in the psychological warfare between Western liberalism and communism from the cold war onwards. Hell, postmodernism is largely based on socialist (actual socialist, not "left of libertarian") critiques of liberalism, and it seems to me that the postmodern tradition of criticising everything without providing a viable alternative is the root of a lot of dystopian ideas. Human history has been on the slow crawl from worse to better for a long time. We're living in the greatest era in history, but we still act like it's a horrible time to be alive.

jeffreyrogers 8y ago
What postmodernists are you referring to? I thought that as well, but after reading some actual postmodernists like Richard Rorty and Foucault I find it hard to support that idea any more. Most postmodern thinkers are left of center, sure, but I think that reflects a bias in academia more than a secret agenda.
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  I'm thinking Derrida, Heidegger, and Horkheimer. I don't think there's any secret agenda going on, more that postmodernism - being built within a Marxist intellectual framework (not a conspiracy, this is well documented) - is inherently oriented towards critiquing and bringing down Western liberalism and capitalism. It doesn't take much effort to go from deconstructionism or critical theory to the kind of dystopian imagery we're talking about. I mean, most dystopian fiction is based on effectively "late-stage capitalism" conditions, and how such a system would degrade.

emiliobumachar 8y ago

Interesting take. Are there any works of dystopian fiction that someone here thinks could be considered anti-democracy propaganda?

mirimir 8y ago
Democracy isn't too popular with Azimov, I think. And now that I think of it, Banks also doesn't like it. Humans and AI Minds have equal rights. And they exist in a state of benevolent anarchy. There are organizations, but decision making is not at all democratic. Maybe closer to consensus-based. Also, humans and other organic beings come off as limited and irresponsible. Needing guidance. So the Minds are really running things. Indeed, the Culture is rather a civilization of Minds, which keeps humans around for moral and sentimental reasons. It creates stuff for them without effective limit. For example, any Culture citizen can have their own planet, orbital, ship or whatever. Abundance has destroyed the concept of money. And the Minds keep them safe, from themselves and from others.