4 ms·

I'm curious about the "exam anxiety" aspect. I've never heard of allowances for alternate types of examination being made for this before, and I just left Unive

by dfj225 16y ago

I'm curious about the "exam anxiety" aspect. I've never heard of allowances for alternate types of examination being made for this before, and I just left University in the US earlier this year. Is this recognized in the US as well? Seems like it would be something that's hard to draw the line between a legitimate psychological issue and normal behavior. I'd venture that nearly everyone experiences some sort of "exam anxiety".

ajays 16y ago
I'm sure there are people with all sorts of issues with test-taking. But there are a fair number of shirkers too, who use this as an excuse to bypass the system. I remember once I was teaching a class, and one of the students sprung this on me: he claimed he had some issues with the tests and the time required was too short (in reality, my tests were always designed such that if you knew the material you could ace them in 20 minutes; if you didn't, you could sit there for an hour. And they were open book, open notes, so no memorization required). So the next test came, and I told him: take as long as you want; I'll be here. The test started at 6pm (it was an evening course). Most of the class left in an hour or so. But he stayed. And I stayed with him. I did my reading, etc. Finally, at 1AM, he gave up and said he was done. The next day, he dropped the course.
ramchip 16y ago
For the record, I'm a Canadian from another province, and I've never heard of such a thing either.
blahedo 16y ago
We need to draw a distinction between the anxiety we all feel when faced with a stressful situation, and the pathological diagnosis of exam anxiety, just as some of us are "obsessive" but do not suffer from clinical OCD, or get "depressed" but do not suffer from clinical depression. Equating the milder "everyone gets this" form with the clinical version is a real disservice to the people with an actual disability. Speaking as a college professor, I see that in practice the key distinction is that the students with the actual disability both A) get a doctor's note and B) tell me long in advance of requesting any specific accommodations. And much of the time they don't even dip very heavily into their accommodations---they may be allotted double time on an exam, for instance, but on an exam where the best un-disabled students finish in 35 minutes, the double-time students (who often are very good students) take the full period or slightly longer, rather than the full 100 minutes they're allotted. I'm not going to try to diagnose the UM student here, but I will note that it is somewhat suspicious that the "exam anxiety" claim didn't come up until after he or she had failed for the second time.
- Lewisham 16y ago
  I'm not going to try to diagnose the UM student here, but I will note that it is somewhat suspicious that the "exam anxiety" claim didn't come up until after he or she had failed for the second time. That's the bit that smells rotten for me too. I was receiving counseling for exam anxiety, and I knew full well about it when I was 17, not at the end of a PhD exam when I'm 22+, that I've already taken once already. There's a certain point where one has to step back and say "You had all this time to see a doctor, and yet you've made it this far without one, so why are you claiming this now after the fact?"
araneae 16y ago
I've taught a fairly large introductory course, and every exam we'd have maybe 1-5% of the class taking a 1.5 or double length exam in a separate room, depending on the severity of their "disability." I'm not an expert or anything, but all of these kids looked fine for me. I suspect a lot of them got their disability certification while in public schooling at the behest of their parents, who wanted to give them an advantage.
- dfj225 16y ago
  In what country? Also, does your school require students who claim this disability to be diagnosed by a doctor?
- Lewisham 16y ago
  I don't know. Having TA'd during an exam with the disability cases, I can see your point (nothing looks physically wrong) but generally I find that they're given far too much time anyway, they seem to finish within a reasonable timeframe. If your exams are written in such a way that they're completely time-dependent anyway, you have bigger problems with your examination procedures.
adbge 16y ago
> I've never heard of allowances for alternate types of examination being made for this before... Most (maybe all?) US universities will make similar allowances for students with mental illness. The student and teacher usually work out alternatives for assignments if necessary. > Seems like it would be something that's hard to draw the line between a legitimate psychological issue and normal behavior. I'd venture that nearly everyone experiences some sort of "exam anxiety". This is exactly the problem with a number of different psychiatric disorders. The bad cases, those are easy to diagnose. The closer you get to the "average" end of the spectrum is where it gets harder to distinguish. In these cases, I think it's always a good idea to get a second opinion. Personally, I think this is just some kind of university political coup. It's my impression that (in the States) getting a PhD isn't really about exams. Instead, one focuses on doing research and choosing something to specialize on in their field. Research stuff, publish stuff, pass classes, propose thesis, write thesis. Unless it's different in Canada, who cares if this kid didn't take an exam? If he has done some research, published something, and written a thesis, I'm pretty okay with him having earned a PhD. I'm sure there's about a million different things I don't know about this particular incident, though. It does seem really weird that this professor would take the issue to the legal system. Wouldn't that jeopardize his future in academia? Doesn't seem worth it.
- dfj225 16y ago
  > Most (maybe all?) US universities will make similar allowances for students with mental illness. The student and teacher usually work out alternatives for assignments if necessary. Sure, I'd expect this when the student has been diagnosed with an illness. I'm mostly curious if exam anxiety is an illness that most US universities would recognize. I suppose I should really be asking if this is something that is commonly diagnosed in the US. I've never heard of it until today. > Unless it's different in Canada, who cares if this kid didn't take an exam? If he has done some research, published something, and written a thesis, I'm pretty okay with him having earned a PhD. I thought the same thing. My impression is that most US math PhD programs would require original research of some magnitude in order to be awarded the degree. If the student in this case did research of significant merit, then I think the university was right in awarding the degree.
ultrasaurus 16y ago
I know 2 (former B.Sc.) students who claimed this condition through the office for students with disabilities. One of them literally had anxiety in that she never used the extra time, but knowing it was there was a huge help. The second one did it after seeing how easy the program was to abuse (I considered it myself but I was almost done). I'm not sure how I feel about the classification, but I had never heard of anyone failing to get it who tried hard enough. Although it doesn't help turn a D into a B, it seems very useful when you're in the A range competing for graduate schools (which they both pursued).

by dfj225 16y ago

ajays 16y ago

I'm sure there are people with all sorts of issues with test-taking. But there are a fair number of shirkers too, who use this as an excuse to bypass the system. I remember once I was teaching a class, and one of the students sprung this on me: he claimed he had some issues with the tests and the time required was too short (in reality, my tests were always designed such that if you knew the material you could ace them in 20 minutes; if you didn't, you could sit there for an hour. And they were open book, open notes, so no memorization required). So the next test came, and I told him: take as long as you want; I'll be here. The test started at 6pm (it was an evening course). Most of the class left in an hour or so. But he stayed. And I stayed with him. I did my reading, etc. Finally, at 1AM, he gave up and said he was done. The next day, he dropped the course.

ramchip 16y ago

For the record, I'm a Canadian from another province, and I've never heard of such a thing either.

blahedo 16y ago

We need to draw a distinction between the anxiety we all feel when faced with a stressful situation, and the pathological diagnosis of exam anxiety, just as some of us are "obsessive" but do not suffer from clinical OCD, or get "depressed" but do not suffer from clinical depression. Equating the milder "everyone gets this" form with the clinical version is a real disservice to the people with an actual disability. Speaking as a college professor, I see that in practice the key distinction is that the students with the actual disability both A) get a doctor's note and B) tell me long in advance of requesting any specific accommodations. And much of the time they don't even dip very heavily into their accommodations---they may be allotted double time on an exam, for instance, but on an exam where the best un-disabled students finish in 35 minutes, the double-time students (who often are very good students) take the full period or slightly longer, rather than the full 100 minutes they're allotted. I'm not going to try to diagnose the UM student here, but I will note that it is somewhat suspicious that the "exam anxiety" claim didn't come up until after he or she had failed for the second time.

Lewisham 16y ago
I'm not going to try to diagnose the UM student here, but I will note that it is somewhat suspicious that the "exam anxiety" claim didn't come up until after he or she had failed for the second time. That's the bit that smells rotten for me too. I was receiving counseling for exam anxiety, and I knew full well about it when I was 17, not at the end of a PhD exam when I'm 22+, that I've already taken once already. There's a certain point where one has to step back and say "You had all this time to see a doctor, and yet you've made it this far without one, so why are you claiming this now after the fact?"

araneae 16y ago

I've taught a fairly large introductory course, and every exam we'd have maybe 1-5% of the class taking a 1.5 or double length exam in a separate room, depending on the severity of their "disability." I'm not an expert or anything, but all of these kids looked fine for me. I suspect a lot of them got their disability certification while in public schooling at the behest of their parents, who wanted to give them an advantage.

dfj225 16y ago
In what country? Also, does your school require students who claim this disability to be diagnosed by a doctor?
Lewisham 16y ago
I don't know. Having TA'd during an exam with the disability cases, I can see your point (nothing looks physically wrong) but generally I find that they're given far too much time anyway, they seem to finish within a reasonable timeframe. If your exams are written in such a way that they're completely time-dependent anyway, you have bigger problems with your examination procedures.

adbge 16y ago

> I've never heard of allowances for alternate types of examination being made for this before... Most (maybe all?) US universities will make similar allowances for students with mental illness. The student and teacher usually work out alternatives for assignments if necessary. > Seems like it would be something that's hard to draw the line between a legitimate psychological issue and normal behavior. I'd venture that nearly everyone experiences some sort of "exam anxiety". This is exactly the problem with a number of different psychiatric disorders. The bad cases, those are easy to diagnose. The closer you get to the "average" end of the spectrum is where it gets harder to distinguish. In these cases, I think it's always a good idea to get a second opinion. Personally, I think this is just some kind of university political coup. It's my impression that (in the States) getting a PhD isn't really about exams. Instead, one focuses on doing research and choosing something to specialize on in their field. Research stuff, publish stuff, pass classes, propose thesis, write thesis. Unless it's different in Canada, who cares if this kid didn't take an exam? If he has done some research, published something, and written a thesis, I'm pretty okay with him having earned a PhD. I'm sure there's about a million different things I don't know about this particular incident, though. It does seem really weird that this professor would take the issue to the legal system. Wouldn't that jeopardize his future in academia? Doesn't seem worth it.

dfj225 16y ago
> Most (maybe all?) US universities will make similar allowances for students with mental illness. The student and teacher usually work out alternatives for assignments if necessary. Sure, I'd expect this when the student has been diagnosed with an illness. I'm mostly curious if exam anxiety is an illness that most US universities would recognize. I suppose I should really be asking if this is something that is commonly diagnosed in the US. I've never heard of it until today. > Unless it's different in Canada, who cares if this kid didn't take an exam? If he has done some research, published something, and written a thesis, I'm pretty okay with him having earned a PhD. I thought the same thing. My impression is that most US math PhD programs would require original research of some magnitude in order to be awarded the degree. If the student in this case did research of significant merit, then I think the university was right in awarding the degree.

ultrasaurus 16y ago

I know 2 (former B.Sc.) students who claimed this condition through the office for students with disabilities. One of them literally had anxiety in that she never used the extra time, but knowing it was there was a huge help. The second one did it after seeing how easy the program was to abuse (I considered it myself but I was almost done). I'm not sure how I feel about the classification, but I had never heard of anyone failing to get it who tried hard enough. Although it doesn't help turn a D into a B, it seems very useful when you're in the A range competing for graduate schools (which they both pursued).