4 ms·

What a weird coincidence. As someone who rents, I share none of those concerns, even though in theory they should affect me just as much. This “but what about t

by woah 8y ago

What a weird coincidence. As someone who rents, I share none of those concerns, even though in theory they should affect me just as much. This “but what about the parking?!” argument gets trotted out so often, but it only ever really seems to concern those who stand to gain from a housing shortage. If you want more infrastructure, vote for more infrastructure.

kurthr 8y ago
Race to the bottom... make everyone's life worse because there's a fad right now, till the techbros get kids. Still won't let the working class stay where they grew up, but who cares. Yeah, the Safeway parking lot is already half full at 3am with cars that don't move until the next morning. All the street parking is full and the "transit corridor", that allows the apartment owners not to put in parking, is a bus line that is loved by the homeless because it takes 3hrs each way (no one else wants to take it). What kind of infrastructure are they going to put in? A $30B subway that goes everywhere (the buses are late because of the traffic)? I don't think my vote is going to convince everyone else to kick in $30k.
- Karrot_Kream 8y ago
  I don't think demand for housing is called a fad. Demand for housing changes. What was once a bad place to live becomes a good place to live. Unless you want to freeze the nature of changing demand, we need to change the way we build housing. Also, as long as population increases, housing stock will have to increase more.
- ocschwar 8y ago
  Not quite a techbro, but I am a techie old enough to have kids. We have a house, with a backyard the size of a tablecloth, and one car. My wife drives it. Lots of apartment buildings nearby, some of which do not come with any parking.
- woah 8y ago
  If you're referring to the move away from suburbs as a "fad" that you oppose, you're on the wrong side of history. Suburbs are extremely wasteful, boring, and lacking in opportunity for their residents. We need to get as many people into the urban centers as possible.
  - fjsolwmv 8y ago
    Suburban density has been the norm for most of human existence until the last century. Not everyone prefers to live in crowded dirtty noisy "exciting" environments. Stress shortens lifespan.
    - stale2002 8y ago
      No, not everyone prefers that. But over 70% either does prefer it or has no preference. There is more than enough land for that 30% who want a suburban house. They should just leave the rest of us our 1% of the land to build high density housing.
    - closeparen 8y ago
      Suburbia is a postwar invention, enabled by and designed for the automobile. We have not lived in habitats made of subdivisions, cul-de-sacs, collector streets, and parking lots for "most of human existence." You may be thinking of the traditional town, which is characterized by pedestrian scale, mixed uses, and continuous structures right up to the sidewalks of narrow streets, engaging pedestrians instead of boring them with "open space." Walkability was not a novelty for the young and childless. It was how you got your kids to school and yourself to work or the grocery store. Mixed use wasn't about "exciting." If you prohibited commercial uses for miles around your house, you'd have a hell of a time buying milk. About the only thing a traditional neighborhood shares with suburbia is single-family houses. In most other ways it's the polar opposite: its defining characteristics are what suburban zoning prohibits. It would be a huge win for urbanists to reform modern suburbia in the image of the traditional town. The Bay Area's housing capacity would skyrocket. Planning based on minimized travel needs and a redundant, load-balanced street grid would significantly soften the impact of growth on traffic. Turning this [0] into more of this [1] would be immense progress. You don't have to build Manhattan. Andres Duany's spiel on this topic is excellent. Here's a nice compact PDF: http://www.ulct.org/ulct/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2013/02/103AnnualConf_Workshop_13-Duany.pdf http://www.ulct.org/ulct/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2013/02/.... [0] https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3649085,-122.0288736,3a,90y,125.37h,73.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swK-X3QlvXy8TqSVG_XKy8w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3649085,-122.0288736,3a,90y,... [1] https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8669525,-122.2587504,3a,75y,183.21h,96.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s73ICm5VlNkIc28QYUNTcfw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8669525,-122.2587504,3a,75y,...

by woah 8y ago

kurthr 8y ago

Race to the bottom... make everyone's life worse because there's a fad right now, till the techbros get kids. Still won't let the working class stay where they grew up, but who cares. Yeah, the Safeway parking lot is already half full at 3am with cars that don't move until the next morning. All the street parking is full and the "transit corridor", that allows the apartment owners not to put in parking, is a bus line that is loved by the homeless because it takes 3hrs each way (no one else wants to take it). What kind of infrastructure are they going to put in? A $30B subway that goes everywhere (the buses are late because of the traffic)? I don't think my vote is going to convince everyone else to kick in $30k.

Karrot_Kream 8y ago
I don't think demand for housing is called a fad. Demand for housing changes. What was once a bad place to live becomes a good place to live. Unless you want to freeze the nature of changing demand, we need to change the way we build housing. Also, as long as population increases, housing stock will have to increase more.
ocschwar 8y ago
Not quite a techbro, but I am a techie old enough to have kids. We have a house, with a backyard the size of a tablecloth, and one car. My wife drives it. Lots of apartment buildings nearby, some of which do not come with any parking.
woah 8y ago
If you're referring to the move away from suburbs as a "fad" that you oppose, you're on the wrong side of history. Suburbs are extremely wasteful, boring, and lacking in opportunity for their residents. We need to get as many people into the urban centers as possible.
- fjsolwmv 8y ago
  Suburban density has been the norm for most of human existence until the last century. Not everyone prefers to live in crowded dirtty noisy "exciting" environments. Stress shortens lifespan.
  - stale2002 8y ago
    No, not everyone prefers that. But over 70% either does prefer it or has no preference. There is more than enough land for that 30% who want a suburban house. They should just leave the rest of us our 1% of the land to build high density housing.
  - closeparen 8y ago
    Suburbia is a postwar invention, enabled by and designed for the automobile. We have not lived in habitats made of subdivisions, cul-de-sacs, collector streets, and parking lots for "most of human existence." You may be thinking of the traditional town, which is characterized by pedestrian scale, mixed uses, and continuous structures right up to the sidewalks of narrow streets, engaging pedestrians instead of boring them with "open space." Walkability was not a novelty for the young and childless. It was how you got your kids to school and yourself to work or the grocery store. Mixed use wasn't about "exciting." If you prohibited commercial uses for miles around your house, you'd have a hell of a time buying milk. About the only thing a traditional neighborhood shares with suburbia is single-family houses. In most other ways it's the polar opposite: its defining characteristics are what suburban zoning prohibits. It would be a huge win for urbanists to reform modern suburbia in the image of the traditional town. The Bay Area's housing capacity would skyrocket. Planning based on minimized travel needs and a redundant, load-balanced street grid would significantly soften the impact of growth on traffic. Turning this [0] into more of this [1] would be immense progress. You don't have to build Manhattan. Andres Duany's spiel on this topic is excellent. Here's a nice compact PDF: http://www.ulct.org/ulct/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2013/02/103AnnualConf_Workshop_13-Duany.pdf http://www.ulct.org/ulct/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2013/02/.... [0] https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3649085,-122.0288736,3a,90y,125.37h,73.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swK-X3QlvXy8TqSVG_XKy8w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3649085,-122.0288736,3a,90y,... [1] https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8669525,-122.2587504,3a,75y,183.21h,96.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s73ICm5VlNkIc28QYUNTcfw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8669525,-122.2587504,3a,75y,...