6 ms·

I am surprised New York still has such archaiac laws. Being a progressive state and city I would have expected these kind of laws to be modified.

AndrewUnmuted 8y ago
I think your surprise is caused by your mistaken assumption that New York, as a city or as a state, is anywhere near progressive.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- icelancer 8y ago
  Yeah, that is a pretty weird comment, especially regarding government and/or business.
mc32 8y ago
Most politicians only respond to their constituency’s votes. Whatever moves the dial in their direction. So you get regulation on many relatively small things but those things like this which have little visibility and little interest from fanatical voters gets little attention. Few people care. Just look at NYC infrastructure and look at their positions on issues very far away from them (international, sovereign state concerns, etc.), and you can see where their energy goes.
alphabettsy 8y ago
I think you would be suprised if you looked into how much the history of many “progressive” cities still presents massive disadvatages and flaws that go against their present-day image. Some of the most “progressive” cities also have some of the longest and most troubling histories. They still manage to elect people like Giuliani and put in place policies like this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/21/it-looks-like-rudy-giuliani-convinced-donald-trump-that-stop-and-frisk-actually-works/?utm_term=.67c533088c2d https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/21/it... New York city might be more progressive than Fort Worth, TX, but there are still plenty of conservatives even though they might be in the minority.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  The more cities I live in, the more I learn that the national stereotypes of “Democrat” and “Republican” are meaningless. A Democrat mayor of one city might have views and policies that would be seen as fully Republican by people in another city, and vice versa. National-level politics is more uniform. But when you get to the local level, it’s all simply people picking the team they think will help them win the election.
  - irrational 8y ago
    I live in Portland Oregon. Anybody from more conservative parts of the country reading through the platforms of the Republican candidates would have sworn they were the Democrat or Progressive candidates. Basically the options were between the Democratic democrat and the Republican democrat ;-)
  - skh 8y ago
    But when you get to the local level, it’s all simply people picking the team they think will help them win the election. A very nice observation. I do believe this occurs at the national level as well. One example being conservative Democratic Senators from the South becoming Republicans.
    - lurquer 8y ago
      Are there others besides Strom Thurmond and Richard Shelby?
      - sremani 8y ago
        Rick Perry(longest serving Republican governor of Texas) was a Democrat and in charge of Al Gore Presidential campaign in Texas in 1988. In Texas there was a massive exodus from Democrats to Republicans in 80s and 90s. Attributing that to Nixon's Southern Strategy is over simplifying. Reagan re-aligned politics in US.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
reaperducer 8y ago
Being a progressive state and city Blue does not necessarily equal progressive. See also: Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, etc...
cronix 8y ago
Generally, the older the city, the more outdated and archaic laws they have on the books. Here are some interesting ones/quotes: > “They go back to the 1700s,” he explained. “They were designed really to encourage and reinforce church attendance and they originally covered all sorts of behaviors . . . no playing games, no sports, no sex. Back in the day, George Washington almost got arrested for traveling on Sunday.”[1] > “It’s easy to pass laws regulating people’s behavior,” he said. “It is very difficult to repeal those laws.”[1] > A license must be purchased before hanging clothes on a clothesline[1] > it is illegal to walk around on Sunday with an ice cream in your pocket.[2] > it is illegal to have two or more people gather together in public while each wearing any sort of disguise or mask[2] > A man cannot go in public wearing non-matching pants and jacket.[2] > it's illegal to wear your slippers after 10pm[2] > While riding in an elevator, one must talk to no one, and fold his hands while looking toward the door[2] [1] https://nypost.com/2016/06/19/new-york-citys-most-ridiculous-laws/ https://nypost.com/2016/06/19/new-york-citys-most-ridiculous... [2] http://981thehawk.com/10-completely-bizarre-new-york-state-laws/ http://981thehawk.com/10-completely-bizarre-new-york-state-l...
- jcranmer 8y ago
  Are those laws actually on the books? Searching the laws of New York, I've been unable to actually find any of these supposed laws, and nearly everytime this comes up, the only citation for these laws still existing is other lists of crazy/insane/weird laws, with no one actually giving a specific reference to the law. Edit: Actually, I did find a reference for one of the saner "weird laws": PEN § 240.35 paragraph 4 does define "Being masked or in any manner disguised by unusual or unnatural attire or facial alteration, loiters, remains or congregates in a public place with other persons so masked or disguised, or knowingly permits or aids persons so masked or disguised to congregate in a public place; except that such conduct is not unlawful when it occurs in connection with a masquerade party or like entertainment if, when such entertainment is held in a city which has promulgated regulations in connection with such affairs, permission is first obtained from the police or other appropriate authorities" as loitering.
  - slededit 8y ago
zjaffee 8y ago
Social progressivism exists among citizens, and in turn that's what makes a city progressive in the eyes of people. Although with the case of many older systems, legacy corrupt political rackets still exist and aren't going away any time soon, as many of these people hold powers that could cripple the city.
exabrial 8y ago
This isn't meant as an attack, but it's useful to think how they got there in the first place, likely because they were a progressive city.

AndrewUnmuted 8y ago

I think your surprise is caused by your mistaken assumption that New York, as a city or as a state, is anywhere near progressive.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
icelancer 8y ago
Yeah, that is a pretty weird comment, especially regarding government and/or business.

mc32 8y ago

Most politicians only respond to their constituency’s votes. Whatever moves the dial in their direction. So you get regulation on many relatively small things but those things like this which have little visibility and little interest from fanatical voters gets little attention. Few people care. Just look at NYC infrastructure and look at their positions on issues very far away from them (international, sovereign state concerns, etc.), and you can see where their energy goes.

alphabettsy 8y ago

I think you would be suprised if you looked into how much the history of many “progressive” cities still presents massive disadvatages and flaws that go against their present-day image. Some of the most “progressive” cities also have some of the longest and most troubling histories. They still manage to elect people like Giuliani and put in place policies like this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/21/it-looks-like-rudy-giuliani-convinced-donald-trump-that-stop-and-frisk-actually-works/?utm_term=.67c533088c2d https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/21/it... New York city might be more progressive than Fort Worth, TX, but there are still plenty of conservatives even though they might be in the minority.

reaperducer 8y ago
The more cities I live in, the more I learn that the national stereotypes of “Democrat” and “Republican” are meaningless. A Democrat mayor of one city might have views and policies that would be seen as fully Republican by people in another city, and vice versa. National-level politics is more uniform. But when you get to the local level, it’s all simply people picking the team they think will help them win the election.
- irrational 8y ago
  I live in Portland Oregon. Anybody from more conservative parts of the country reading through the platforms of the Republican candidates would have sworn they were the Democrat or Progressive candidates. Basically the options were between the Democratic democrat and the Republican democrat ;-)
- skh 8y ago
  But when you get to the local level, it’s all simply people picking the team they think will help them win the election. A very nice observation. I do believe this occurs at the national level as well. One example being conservative Democratic Senators from the South becoming Republicans.
  - lurquer 8y ago
    Are there others besides Strom Thurmond and Richard Shelby?
    - sremani 8y ago
      Rick Perry(longest serving Republican governor of Texas) was a Democrat and in charge of Al Gore Presidential campaign in Texas in 1988. In Texas there was a massive exodus from Democrats to Republicans in 80s and 90s. Attributing that to Nixon's Southern Strategy is over simplifying. Reagan re-aligned politics in US.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago

reaperducer 8y ago

Being a progressive state and city Blue does not necessarily equal progressive. See also: Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, etc...

cronix 8y ago

Generally, the older the city, the more outdated and archaic laws they have on the books. Here are some interesting ones/quotes: > “They go back to the 1700s,” he explained. “They were designed really to encourage and reinforce church attendance and they originally covered all sorts of behaviors . . . no playing games, no sports, no sex. Back in the day, George Washington almost got arrested for traveling on Sunday.”[1] > “It’s easy to pass laws regulating people’s behavior,” he said. “It is very difficult to repeal those laws.”[1] > A license must be purchased before hanging clothes on a clothesline[1] > it is illegal to walk around on Sunday with an ice cream in your pocket.[2] > it is illegal to have two or more people gather together in public while each wearing any sort of disguise or mask[2] > A man cannot go in public wearing non-matching pants and jacket.[2] > it's illegal to wear your slippers after 10pm[2] > While riding in an elevator, one must talk to no one, and fold his hands while looking toward the door[2] [1] https://nypost.com/2016/06/19/new-york-citys-most-ridiculous-laws/ https://nypost.com/2016/06/19/new-york-citys-most-ridiculous... [2] http://981thehawk.com/10-completely-bizarre-new-york-state-laws/ http://981thehawk.com/10-completely-bizarre-new-york-state-l...

jcranmer 8y ago
Are those laws actually on the books? Searching the laws of New York, I've been unable to actually find any of these supposed laws, and nearly everytime this comes up, the only citation for these laws still existing is other lists of crazy/insane/weird laws, with no one actually giving a specific reference to the law. Edit: Actually, I did find a reference for one of the saner "weird laws": PEN § 240.35 paragraph 4 does define "Being masked or in any manner disguised by unusual or unnatural attire or facial alteration, loiters, remains or congregates in a public place with other persons so masked or disguised, or knowingly permits or aids persons so masked or disguised to congregate in a public place; except that such conduct is not unlawful when it occurs in connection with a masquerade party or like entertainment if, when such entertainment is held in a city which has promulgated regulations in connection with such affairs, permission is first obtained from the police or other appropriate authorities" as loitering.
- slededit 8y ago

zjaffee 8y ago

Social progressivism exists among citizens, and in turn that's what makes a city progressive in the eyes of people. Although with the case of many older systems, legacy corrupt political rackets still exist and aren't going away any time soon, as many of these people hold powers that could cripple the city.

exabrial 8y ago

This isn't meant as an attack, but it's useful to think how they got there in the first place, likely because they were a progressive city.