9 ms·

New York City’s highest-earning official is a debt collector

134 points by Benlights 8y ago

victor106 8y ago
I am surprised New York still has such archaiac laws. Being a progressive state and city I would have expected these kind of laws to be modified.
- AndrewUnmuted 8y ago
  I think your surprise is caused by your mistaken assumption that New York, as a city or as a state, is anywhere near progressive.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - icelancer 8y ago
    Yeah, that is a pretty weird comment, especially regarding government and/or business.
- mc32 8y ago
  Most politicians only respond to their constituency’s votes. Whatever moves the dial in their direction. So you get regulation on many relatively small things but those things like this which have little visibility and little interest from fanatical voters gets little attention. Few people care. Just look at NYC infrastructure and look at their positions on issues very far away from them (international, sovereign state concerns, etc.), and you can see where their energy goes.
- alphabettsy 8y ago
  I think you would be suprised if you looked into how much the history of many “progressive” cities still presents massive disadvatages and flaws that go against their present-day image. Some of the most “progressive” cities also have some of the longest and most troubling histories. They still manage to elect people like Giuliani and put in place policies like this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/21/it-looks-like-rudy-giuliani-convinced-donald-trump-that-stop-and-frisk-actually-works/?utm_term=.67c533088c2d https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/21/it... New York city might be more progressive than Fort Worth, TX, but there are still plenty of conservatives even though they might be in the minority.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    The more cities I live in, the more I learn that the national stereotypes of “Democrat” and “Republican” are meaningless. A Democrat mayor of one city might have views and policies that would be seen as fully Republican by people in another city, and vice versa. National-level politics is more uniform. But when you get to the local level, it’s all simply people picking the team they think will help them win the election.
    - irrational 8y ago
      I live in Portland Oregon. Anybody from more conservative parts of the country reading through the platforms of the Republican candidates would have sworn they were the Democrat or Progressive candidates. Basically the options were between the Democratic democrat and the Republican democrat ;-)
    - skh 8y ago
      But when you get to the local level, it’s all simply people picking the team they think will help them win the election. A very nice observation. I do believe this occurs at the national level as well. One example being conservative Democratic Senators from the South becoming Republicans.
      - lurquer 8y ago
        Are there others besides Strom Thurmond and Richard Shelby?
        sremani 8y ago
        Rick Perry(longest serving Republican governor of Texas) was a Democrat and in charge of Al Gore Presidential campaign in Texas in 1988. In Texas there was a massive exodus from Democrats to Republicans in 80s and 90s. Attributing that to Nixon's Southern Strategy is over simplifying. Reagan re-aligned politics in US.
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
- reaperducer 8y ago
  Being a progressive state and city Blue does not necessarily equal progressive. See also: Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, etc...
- cronix 8y ago
  Generally, the older the city, the more outdated and archaic laws they have on the books. Here are some interesting ones/quotes: > “They go back to the 1700s,” he explained. “They were designed really to encourage and reinforce church attendance and they originally covered all sorts of behaviors . . . no playing games, no sports, no sex. Back in the day, George Washington almost got arrested for traveling on Sunday.”[1] > “It’s easy to pass laws regulating people’s behavior,” he said. “It is very difficult to repeal those laws.”[1] > A license must be purchased before hanging clothes on a clothesline[1] > it is illegal to walk around on Sunday with an ice cream in your pocket.[2] > it is illegal to have two or more people gather together in public while each wearing any sort of disguise or mask[2] > A man cannot go in public wearing non-matching pants and jacket.[2] > it's illegal to wear your slippers after 10pm[2] > While riding in an elevator, one must talk to no one, and fold his hands while looking toward the door[2] [1] https://nypost.com/2016/06/19/new-york-citys-most-ridiculous-laws/ https://nypost.com/2016/06/19/new-york-citys-most-ridiculous... [2] http://981thehawk.com/10-completely-bizarre-new-york-state-laws/ http://981thehawk.com/10-completely-bizarre-new-york-state-l...
  - jcranmer 8y ago
    Are those laws actually on the books? Searching the laws of New York, I've been unable to actually find any of these supposed laws, and nearly everytime this comes up, the only citation for these laws still existing is other lists of crazy/insane/weird laws, with no one actually giving a specific reference to the law. Edit: Actually, I did find a reference for one of the saner "weird laws": PEN § 240.35 paragraph 4 does define "Being masked or in any manner disguised by unusual or unnatural attire or facial alteration, loiters, remains or congregates in a public place with other persons so masked or disguised, or knowingly permits or aids persons so masked or disguised to congregate in a public place; except that such conduct is not unlawful when it occurs in connection with a masquerade party or like entertainment if, when such entertainment is held in a city which has promulgated regulations in connection with such affairs, permission is first obtained from the police or other appropriate authorities" as loitering.
    - slededit 8y ago
- zjaffee 8y ago
  Social progressivism exists among citizens, and in turn that's what makes a city progressive in the eyes of people. Although with the case of many older systems, legacy corrupt political rackets still exist and aren't going away any time soon, as many of these people hold powers that could cripple the city.
- exabrial 8y ago
  This isn't meant as an attack, but it's useful to think how they got there in the first place, likely because they were a progressive city.
tooltalk 8y ago
It's not too surprising for a city where a policeman can make $150k (base and overtime) year just after 8 years in service.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  Actually working or the phantom overtime that's popular with many big city police departments?
  - tooltalk 8y ago
    Not saying all cops are overpaid, but probably a healthy mix of the two: https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/04/16/leaked-nypd-disciplinary-records-released-online/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/04/16/leaked-ny... Some seem to believe NYC is one of the most progressive places in the country, but may not realize it's also known for most corrupt politicians and public servants.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      >Some seem to believe NYC is one of the most progressive places in the country, but may not realize it's also known for most corrupt politicians and public servants. Boston is terrible but nobody notices because NYC is nearby. NYC is pretty bad but they look good when compared to NJ that's the same but doesn't have the money to cover it up. NJ points at Chicago and say "well at least we can afford to buy the court system so our politicians stay out of jail". I had a family member in state government. Even in some unremarkable department corruption is everywhere. There was a Greek philosopher who said something like "more laws = more corruption". He was on to something. Too bad being in favor of big government is a prerequisite for being "progressive" these days.
      - ambicapter 8y ago
        Well if your platform is "Some Greek guy said something one time that agrees with me, I'm not sure what he said exactly", no wonder not many people are aligning themselves to your cause.
sol_remmy 8y ago
I met an underwriter through synagogue who works at the predatory lending office mentioned in this article (Queen Funding LLC). I will have a talk with him about this..
- mc32 8y ago
  That’s awesome. Hope it results in some positive action, but I’m not optimistic one person would maje a difference in the face of many getting fat off this.
- lowry 8y ago
  Gosh, you really incite us to make antisemitic comments, here.
  - dang 8y ago
    Doing this will get you banned on HN, so please don't do it again.
- dba7dba 8y ago
  Your friend will nod in agreement, but nothing will change. He went into the firm and is staying on mostly likely knowing what is going on, because the pay is too good.
sctb 8y ago
Related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18560153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18560153.
forapurpose 8y ago
This is better than many U.S. states, where the highest-earning public employee is a football coach. But let's also consider that in private industry, a great many people in finance make more money than almost every professor. In almost every major sport, a backup professional athlete makes more money than the U.S. general in charge of security and of every military asset and operation in the entire Mideast. How many professions make more than doctors who save lives daily? Than teachers? The issue is that the current labor marketplace does not allocate resources to those who provide the most benefit to society. EDIT: Added the last 2 paragraphs
- prklmn 8y ago
  I'd love to hear your rationale on that.
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    > I'd love to hear your rationale on that. I'm not sure what you are asking for: Evidence for the third paragraph? That's in the first two paragraphs. My economic theory of why the labor market works out that way?
    - prklmn 8y ago
      Saw your comment before the edit. I think you’d have a difficult time convincing just about anyone that a publicly employed loan shark debt collector adds more value to society than a highly paid football coach.
      - forapurpose 8y ago
        Ah, that makes sense. Well, I'd argue that the football coach adds zero to society - someone else could do the job and society would be unchanged. A more productive football coach only increases demand for productive football coaches. But some people produce even less that that ...
- phd514 8y ago
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> In an archaic system dating to colonial New Amsterdam, he’s one of 35 mayoral appointees who compete for fees recovering debts. Marshals mostly evict tenants and tow cars, but Barbarovich and a few others have become cogs in a debt-collection machine that has crushed thousands of small businesses. They use their legal authority on behalf of lenders who charge more than some mafia loan sharks once did. This needs to be fixed. Just e-mailed my City Council member, who is also the body's Speaker. Irritated on so many levels. He is a public employee. He is abusing New York City's status as a financial hub. He's cramming garbage into our city's stretched judicial system, garbage protecting economic activity occuring pretty much wholly outside our city. > In June, Biegel faxed an order demanding money to a bank in Elmira, New York, 173 miles northwest of the city. He claimed that a state court had entered a judgment against a plumber named Orion Megivern. That wasn’t the case. The lender had tried to enter a confession of judgment at a clerk’s office in Staten Island, but the clerk there hadn’t yet acted on the application That's wire fraud!
- barry-cotter 8y ago
  It’s only wire fraud if you’re a private citizen. If you’re a government employee it’s an honest and excusable mistake.
TACIXAT 8y ago
Unpopular opinion, but I really respect this profession and people making the most of their circumstances. My girlfriend had a shitty landlord that withheld her deposit. She won in small claims court. She had no way to get the money after that. I have very little sympathy for people who owe a debt to be collected upon. Especially when they've signed the papers allowing it. Also good on this guy for increasing his income from 90k a year to 1m.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  I take it you missed the first article in the series? > It’s like an arbitration agreement, except the borrower always loses. Armed with a confession, a lender can, without proof, accuse borrowers of not paying and legally seize their assets before they know what’s happened. Not surprisingly, some lenders have abused this power. In dozens of interviews and court pleadings, borrowers describe lenders who’ve forged documents, lied about how much they were owed, or fabricated defaults out of thin air. > It said the Duncans had stopped making payments. That wasn’t true. The Duncans’ bank records show that Yellowstone had continued to get its daily $800 even after going to court. The company’s sworn statement also inflated the size of the couple’s debt. These loans are like a slumlord requiring a "I confess to all future claims of damage to the property, agree to not contest eviction, and will still pay the entire year's rent if evicted" before the lease starts.
75dvtwin 8y ago
The only way to fight corruption, is to mercilessly reduce power of elected officials, or the officials appointed by elected officials. Via the vote. There is simply no other way. A hope for a powerful yet fair political elite without a term limit -- is analogous to believing that earth is flat. These leaches will tell their voters, how they will 'fix things', and how the 'needy will be served', and how the unfair will be made fair, etc. As long as they get the checkbook, the law enforcement and the media 'covering' for them. There is little difference between the modern day enabled 'Progressive' politician, and the old day racketeering Mafiosi. Both wanted to control their 'sphere of influence' by very similar methods. And both want their 'subjects' to be as powerless as possible (in both legal, and self-defense senses) Both use a form of assassination to scare the opponents (mafia chose physical, and the progressive politicians go for the economic & character assassination first ).
rv-de 8y ago
Is it to obvious or why is nobody expressing amusement upon the man's apt first name against the backdrop of the barbarism of what he calls his profession?

134 points by Benlights 8y ago

I am surprised New York still has such archaiac laws. Being a progressive state and city I would have expected these kind of laws to be modified.

AndrewUnmuted 8y ago
I think your surprise is caused by your mistaken assumption that New York, as a city or as a state, is anywhere near progressive.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- icelancer 8y ago
  Yeah, that is a pretty weird comment, especially regarding government and/or business.
mc32 8y ago
Most politicians only respond to their constituency’s votes. Whatever moves the dial in their direction. So you get regulation on many relatively small things but those things like this which have little visibility and little interest from fanatical voters gets little attention. Few people care. Just look at NYC infrastructure and look at their positions on issues very far away from them (international, sovereign state concerns, etc.), and you can see where their energy goes.
alphabettsy 8y ago
I think you would be suprised if you looked into how much the history of many “progressive” cities still presents massive disadvatages and flaws that go against their present-day image. Some of the most “progressive” cities also have some of the longest and most troubling histories. They still manage to elect people like Giuliani and put in place policies like this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/21/it-looks-like-rudy-giuliani-convinced-donald-trump-that-stop-and-frisk-actually-works/?utm_term=.67c533088c2d https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/21/it... New York city might be more progressive than Fort Worth, TX, but there are still plenty of conservatives even though they might be in the minority.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  The more cities I live in, the more I learn that the national stereotypes of “Democrat” and “Republican” are meaningless. A Democrat mayor of one city might have views and policies that would be seen as fully Republican by people in another city, and vice versa. National-level politics is more uniform. But when you get to the local level, it’s all simply people picking the team they think will help them win the election.
  - irrational 8y ago
    I live in Portland Oregon. Anybody from more conservative parts of the country reading through the platforms of the Republican candidates would have sworn they were the Democrat or Progressive candidates. Basically the options were between the Democratic democrat and the Republican democrat ;-)
  - skh 8y ago
    But when you get to the local level, it’s all simply people picking the team they think will help them win the election. A very nice observation. I do believe this occurs at the national level as well. One example being conservative Democratic Senators from the South becoming Republicans.
    - lurquer 8y ago
      Are there others besides Strom Thurmond and Richard Shelby?
      - sremani 8y ago
        Rick Perry(longest serving Republican governor of Texas) was a Democrat and in charge of Al Gore Presidential campaign in Texas in 1988. In Texas there was a massive exodus from Democrats to Republicans in 80s and 90s. Attributing that to Nixon's Southern Strategy is over simplifying. Reagan re-aligned politics in US.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
reaperducer 8y ago
Being a progressive state and city Blue does not necessarily equal progressive. See also: Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, etc...
cronix 8y ago
Generally, the older the city, the more outdated and archaic laws they have on the books. Here are some interesting ones/quotes: > “They go back to the 1700s,” he explained. “They were designed really to encourage and reinforce church attendance and they originally covered all sorts of behaviors . . . no playing games, no sports, no sex. Back in the day, George Washington almost got arrested for traveling on Sunday.”[1] > “It’s easy to pass laws regulating people’s behavior,” he said. “It is very difficult to repeal those laws.”[1] > A license must be purchased before hanging clothes on a clothesline[1] > it is illegal to walk around on Sunday with an ice cream in your pocket.[2] > it is illegal to have two or more people gather together in public while each wearing any sort of disguise or mask[2] > A man cannot go in public wearing non-matching pants and jacket.[2] > it's illegal to wear your slippers after 10pm[2] > While riding in an elevator, one must talk to no one, and fold his hands while looking toward the door[2] [1] https://nypost.com/2016/06/19/new-york-citys-most-ridiculous-laws/ https://nypost.com/2016/06/19/new-york-citys-most-ridiculous... [2] http://981thehawk.com/10-completely-bizarre-new-york-state-laws/ http://981thehawk.com/10-completely-bizarre-new-york-state-l...
- jcranmer 8y ago
  Are those laws actually on the books? Searching the laws of New York, I've been unable to actually find any of these supposed laws, and nearly everytime this comes up, the only citation for these laws still existing is other lists of crazy/insane/weird laws, with no one actually giving a specific reference to the law. Edit: Actually, I did find a reference for one of the saner "weird laws": PEN § 240.35 paragraph 4 does define "Being masked or in any manner disguised by unusual or unnatural attire or facial alteration, loiters, remains or congregates in a public place with other persons so masked or disguised, or knowingly permits or aids persons so masked or disguised to congregate in a public place; except that such conduct is not unlawful when it occurs in connection with a masquerade party or like entertainment if, when such entertainment is held in a city which has promulgated regulations in connection with such affairs, permission is first obtained from the police or other appropriate authorities" as loitering.
  - slededit 8y ago
zjaffee 8y ago
Social progressivism exists among citizens, and in turn that's what makes a city progressive in the eyes of people. Although with the case of many older systems, legacy corrupt political rackets still exist and aren't going away any time soon, as many of these people hold powers that could cripple the city.
exabrial 8y ago
This isn't meant as an attack, but it's useful to think how they got there in the first place, likely because they were a progressive city.

tooltalk 8y ago

It's not too surprising for a city where a policeman can make $150k (base and overtime) year just after 8 years in service.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
Actually working or the phantom overtime that's popular with many big city police departments?
- tooltalk 8y ago
  Not saying all cops are overpaid, but probably a healthy mix of the two: https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/04/16/leaked-nypd-disciplinary-records-released-online/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/04/16/leaked-ny... Some seem to believe NYC is one of the most progressive places in the country, but may not realize it's also known for most corrupt politicians and public servants.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    >Some seem to believe NYC is one of the most progressive places in the country, but may not realize it's also known for most corrupt politicians and public servants. Boston is terrible but nobody notices because NYC is nearby. NYC is pretty bad but they look good when compared to NJ that's the same but doesn't have the money to cover it up. NJ points at Chicago and say "well at least we can afford to buy the court system so our politicians stay out of jail". I had a family member in state government. Even in some unremarkable department corruption is everywhere. There was a Greek philosopher who said something like "more laws = more corruption". He was on to something. Too bad being in favor of big government is a prerequisite for being "progressive" these days.
    - ambicapter 8y ago
      Well if your platform is "Some Greek guy said something one time that agrees with me, I'm not sure what he said exactly", no wonder not many people are aligning themselves to your cause.

sol_remmy 8y ago

I met an underwriter through synagogue who works at the predatory lending office mentioned in this article (Queen Funding LLC). I will have a talk with him about this..

mc32 8y ago
That’s awesome. Hope it results in some positive action, but I’m not optimistic one person would maje a difference in the face of many getting fat off this.
lowry 8y ago
Gosh, you really incite us to make antisemitic comments, here.
- dang 8y ago
  Doing this will get you banned on HN, so please don't do it again.
dba7dba 8y ago
Your friend will nod in agreement, but nothing will change. He went into the firm and is staying on mostly likely knowing what is going on, because the pay is too good.

sctb 8y ago

Related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18560153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18560153.

forapurpose 8y ago

This is better than many U.S. states, where the highest-earning public employee is a football coach. But let's also consider that in private industry, a great many people in finance make more money than almost every professor. In almost every major sport, a backup professional athlete makes more money than the U.S. general in charge of security and of every military asset and operation in the entire Mideast. How many professions make more than doctors who save lives daily? Than teachers? The issue is that the current labor marketplace does not allocate resources to those who provide the most benefit to society. EDIT: Added the last 2 paragraphs

prklmn 8y ago
I'd love to hear your rationale on that.
- forapurpose 8y ago
  > I'd love to hear your rationale on that. I'm not sure what you are asking for: Evidence for the third paragraph? That's in the first two paragraphs. My economic theory of why the labor market works out that way?
  - prklmn 8y ago
    Saw your comment before the edit. I think you’d have a difficult time convincing just about anyone that a publicly employed loan shark debt collector adds more value to society than a highly paid football coach.
    - forapurpose 8y ago
      Ah, that makes sense. Well, I'd argue that the football coach adds zero to society - someone else could do the job and society would be unchanged. A more productive football coach only increases demand for productive football coaches. But some people produce even less that that ...
phd514 8y ago

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> In an archaic system dating to colonial New Amsterdam, he’s one of 35 mayoral appointees who compete for fees recovering debts. Marshals mostly evict tenants and tow cars, but Barbarovich and a few others have become cogs in a debt-collection machine that has crushed thousands of small businesses. They use their legal authority on behalf of lenders who charge more than some mafia loan sharks once did. This needs to be fixed. Just e-mailed my City Council member, who is also the body's Speaker. Irritated on so many levels. He is a public employee. He is abusing New York City's status as a financial hub. He's cramming garbage into our city's stretched judicial system, garbage protecting economic activity occuring pretty much wholly outside our city. > In June, Biegel faxed an order demanding money to a bank in Elmira, New York, 173 miles northwest of the city. He claimed that a state court had entered a judgment against a plumber named Orion Megivern. That wasn’t the case. The lender had tried to enter a confession of judgment at a clerk’s office in Staten Island, but the clerk there hadn’t yet acted on the application That's wire fraud!

barry-cotter 8y ago
It’s only wire fraud if you’re a private citizen. If you’re a government employee it’s an honest and excusable mistake.

TACIXAT 8y ago

Unpopular opinion, but I really respect this profession and people making the most of their circumstances. My girlfriend had a shitty landlord that withheld her deposit. She won in small claims court. She had no way to get the money after that. I have very little sympathy for people who owe a debt to be collected upon. Especially when they've signed the papers allowing it. Also good on this guy for increasing his income from 90k a year to 1m.

ceejayoz 8y ago
I take it you missed the first article in the series? > It’s like an arbitration agreement, except the borrower always loses. Armed with a confession, a lender can, without proof, accuse borrowers of not paying and legally seize their assets before they know what’s happened. Not surprisingly, some lenders have abused this power. In dozens of interviews and court pleadings, borrowers describe lenders who’ve forged documents, lied about how much they were owed, or fabricated defaults out of thin air. > It said the Duncans had stopped making payments. That wasn’t true. The Duncans’ bank records show that Yellowstone had continued to get its daily $800 even after going to court. The company’s sworn statement also inflated the size of the couple’s debt. These loans are like a slumlord requiring a "I confess to all future claims of damage to the property, agree to not contest eviction, and will still pay the entire year's rent if evicted" before the lease starts.

75dvtwin 8y ago

The only way to fight corruption, is to mercilessly reduce power of elected officials, or the officials appointed by elected officials. Via the vote. There is simply no other way. A hope for a powerful yet fair political elite without a term limit -- is analogous to believing that earth is flat. These leaches will tell their voters, how they will 'fix things', and how the 'needy will be served', and how the unfair will be made fair, etc. As long as they get the checkbook, the law enforcement and the media 'covering' for them. There is little difference between the modern day enabled 'Progressive' politician, and the old day racketeering Mafiosi. Both wanted to control their 'sphere of influence' by very similar methods. And both want their 'subjects' to be as powerless as possible (in both legal, and self-defense senses) Both use a form of assassination to scare the opponents (mafia chose physical, and the progressive politicians go for the economic & character assassination first ).

rv-de 8y ago

Is it to obvious or why is nobody expressing amusement upon the man's apt first name against the backdrop of the barbarism of what he calls his profession?