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Sounds like your perspective involves an omniscient ideal that does not and can not exist. Tradition exists for this very reason. We pass on what works, we do w

Sounds like your perspective involves an omniscient ideal that does not and can not exist. Tradition exists for this very reason. We pass on what works, we do what works, and we don't presume to know what is better. That is what makes human beings so good at learning - we have the ability to hyper imitate one another. I see you doing something successfully, I don't need to know the actual process behind it, I just need to do it the way you do it. Gratitude for what you have is a critical component of the formula. You seem to lack that. I hope you find it. You won't last long without it. I recommend church. It helps. You evolved to do that too.

TheBeardKing 8y ago
>I recommend church. It helps. You evolved to do that too. Wait, what? I laughed out loud at that.
- camelNotation 8y ago
  I'm not sure what you think religion is if not an evolved social construct. Do you actually think religion, with all its ritual and structure and beauty exists because cave men tried to explain away the things that scared them? It is the foundation of broader social order. It makes you feel part of something bigger than yourself. It makes it possible for you to relate positively with human beings outside the 300-400 or so that you are capable of remembering and caring about at once.
  - balls187 8y ago
    Religion and Evolution are typically at odds with each other. One is a social construct. The other is science.
    - seatdrummer 8y ago
      This is hilarious anti-religion rhetoric, complete unwillingness to have evolution and religion in the same sentence. Twisting from how religion historically promotes community into the content of the religion itself. The content is irrelevant, what is important is the sense of community and bonding that religion has offered people for forever.
      - balls187 8y ago
        > what is important is the sense of community and bonding that religion has offered people for forever. Religion doesn't have anything unique to create community and bonding, other than large numbers. It's not any better at fostering that things over any other shared interest, and at it's worst causes significantly more damage to communities.
        seatdrummer 8y ago
        >It's not any better at fostering that things over any other shared interest What is another shared interest that builds positive community bonds at or above the scale of religion.
        balls187 8y ago
        > What is another shared interest that builds positive community bonds at or above the scale of religion. Procreation. What religion at scale hasn't also done significant damage to communities.
    - throwaway5250 8y ago
      You got lost in the meta. There's a difference between someone's beliefs about evolution, which might be true, false, or nonexistent; versus evolution itself, which is a force that will act on us regardless of what we believe. Are we evolved to have religion? Maybe, but the answer to that has absolutely nothing to do with the question of whether or not evolution itself is true.
  - TheBeardKing 8y ago
    I don't disagree, I just found it funny because I live in the Bible belt and you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who both recommends church and believes science. I go to church, but would recommend therapy over church for personal issues.
  - LeifCarrotson 8y ago
    > ...an evolved social construct. Do you actually think religion, with all its ritual and structure and beauty exists because cave men tried to explain away the things that scared them? Is that not what "an evolved social construct" means? Some cave man's explanation was a social construct happened to have good characteristics in favor of its survival in the environment of human society. Like the process of evolution in biology, it contained traits that were useful for its preservation and propagation. It possibly (but not necessarily) included utility for its adherents, and it possibly formed an effective foundation of social order. You're right, that's exactly what I think religion is. This stands in stark contrast to where most religious people think their religion comes from: not from some cave-man's misguided guess but from the genuine revelation from God to people. I do not want to feel like part of something bigger than myself if it consists of mutually pretending that something false (or at least uncertain) is certain. If it is untrue, I do not wish to believe it, regardless of its utility.
- Nomentatus 8y ago
  Anthropology shows religion exists in various forms, but across societies. That's not a statistical accident.
  - wishinghand 8y ago
    Right, it's a baby step to science: actually explaining how the world works. It's a powerful meme that tends to run away with itself once the scientific method is stumbled upon in society.
    - newen 8y ago
      You are conflating communities formed around religions with explanations that religions have about the world. Religions provide many different things, one being community and sense of belonging, another being a sense of understanding of the world. You can be part of the former without necessarily beleiving the latter.
balls187 8y ago
I'm assuming you're American... What you've written (own a home, have job, make kids, go to church) really only applies to american's, who make up ~300m out of 7b people currently inhabiting our planet. That definition of what we're evolved to do, is incredibly myopic; more so if you consider that definition of middle class has really only been around since the mid 1900's? Home ownership is very much ingrained in American culture because of it's ties to the US economy (for those who own homes, it's typically they're only investment). FWIW, I think it's great that you and your spouse have found meaning in your lives.
- newen 8y ago
  > What you've written (own a home, have job, make kids, go to church) really only applies to american's, who make up ~300m out of 7b people currently inhabiting our planet. No... This is true for middle middle class and richer people almost everywhere in the world.
- camelNotation 8y ago
  You're 100% correct, but I'm posting this to the audience of Hacker News. I highly doubt we have too many representatives from the true lower classes here. And to be clear, I don't mean "own a home" when I say "build a home." A home is composed of the people you are committed to and the people you love. I don't mean buy a house or buy anything, actually. I mean building an identity for yourself that includes the notion of "home."
wishinghand 8y ago
> I recommend church. It helps. You evolved to do that too. We may evolved to follow each other but just because one person wrote a hit sermon doesn't mean we evolved to mindlessly church it out every week. Religion is really just something we do on the side that usually doesn't get in the way of evolution (unless it involves sacrifices or suicide).

TheBeardKing 8y ago

>I recommend church. It helps. You evolved to do that too. Wait, what? I laughed out loud at that.

camelNotation 8y ago
I'm not sure what you think religion is if not an evolved social construct. Do you actually think religion, with all its ritual and structure and beauty exists because cave men tried to explain away the things that scared them? It is the foundation of broader social order. It makes you feel part of something bigger than yourself. It makes it possible for you to relate positively with human beings outside the 300-400 or so that you are capable of remembering and caring about at once.
- balls187 8y ago
  Religion and Evolution are typically at odds with each other. One is a social construct. The other is science.
  - seatdrummer 8y ago
    This is hilarious anti-religion rhetoric, complete unwillingness to have evolution and religion in the same sentence. Twisting from how religion historically promotes community into the content of the religion itself. The content is irrelevant, what is important is the sense of community and bonding that religion has offered people for forever.
    - balls187 8y ago
      > what is important is the sense of community and bonding that religion has offered people for forever. Religion doesn't have anything unique to create community and bonding, other than large numbers. It's not any better at fostering that things over any other shared interest, and at it's worst causes significantly more damage to communities.
      - seatdrummer 8y ago
        >It's not any better at fostering that things over any other shared interest What is another shared interest that builds positive community bonds at or above the scale of religion.
        balls187 8y ago
        > What is another shared interest that builds positive community bonds at or above the scale of religion. Procreation. What religion at scale hasn't also done significant damage to communities.
  - throwaway5250 8y ago
    You got lost in the meta. There's a difference between someone's beliefs about evolution, which might be true, false, or nonexistent; versus evolution itself, which is a force that will act on us regardless of what we believe. Are we evolved to have religion? Maybe, but the answer to that has absolutely nothing to do with the question of whether or not evolution itself is true.
- TheBeardKing 8y ago
  I don't disagree, I just found it funny because I live in the Bible belt and you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who both recommends church and believes science. I go to church, but would recommend therapy over church for personal issues.
- LeifCarrotson 8y ago
  > ...an evolved social construct. Do you actually think religion, with all its ritual and structure and beauty exists because cave men tried to explain away the things that scared them? Is that not what "an evolved social construct" means? Some cave man's explanation was a social construct happened to have good characteristics in favor of its survival in the environment of human society. Like the process of evolution in biology, it contained traits that were useful for its preservation and propagation. It possibly (but not necessarily) included utility for its adherents, and it possibly formed an effective foundation of social order. You're right, that's exactly what I think religion is. This stands in stark contrast to where most religious people think their religion comes from: not from some cave-man's misguided guess but from the genuine revelation from God to people. I do not want to feel like part of something bigger than myself if it consists of mutually pretending that something false (or at least uncertain) is certain. If it is untrue, I do not wish to believe it, regardless of its utility.
Nomentatus 8y ago
Anthropology shows religion exists in various forms, but across societies. That's not a statistical accident.
- wishinghand 8y ago
  Right, it's a baby step to science: actually explaining how the world works. It's a powerful meme that tends to run away with itself once the scientific method is stumbled upon in society.
  - newen 8y ago
    You are conflating communities formed around religions with explanations that religions have about the world. Religions provide many different things, one being community and sense of belonging, another being a sense of understanding of the world. You can be part of the former without necessarily beleiving the latter.

balls187 8y ago

I'm assuming you're American... What you've written (own a home, have job, make kids, go to church) really only applies to american's, who make up ~300m out of 7b people currently inhabiting our planet. That definition of what we're evolved to do, is incredibly myopic; more so if you consider that definition of middle class has really only been around since the mid 1900's? Home ownership is very much ingrained in American culture because of it's ties to the US economy (for those who own homes, it's typically they're only investment). FWIW, I think it's great that you and your spouse have found meaning in your lives.

newen 8y ago
> What you've written (own a home, have job, make kids, go to church) really only applies to american's, who make up ~300m out of 7b people currently inhabiting our planet. No... This is true for middle middle class and richer people almost everywhere in the world.
camelNotation 8y ago
You're 100% correct, but I'm posting this to the audience of Hacker News. I highly doubt we have too many representatives from the true lower classes here. And to be clear, I don't mean "own a home" when I say "build a home." A home is composed of the people you are committed to and the people you love. I don't mean buy a house or buy anything, actually. I mean building an identity for yourself that includes the notion of "home."

wishinghand 8y ago

> I recommend church. It helps. You evolved to do that too. We may evolved to follow each other but just because one person wrote a hit sermon doesn't mean we evolved to mindlessly church it out every week. Religion is really just something we do on the side that usually doesn't get in the way of evolution (unless it involves sacrifices or suicide).