7 ms·

I currently live in SF and work in South Bay, but this is probably the last job I'll accept down there. Being able to walk to work, or at least jump on a short

I currently live in SF and work in South Bay, but this is probably the last job I'll accept down there. Being able to walk to work, or at least jump on a short bus ride to work cannot be understated for quality of life.

avalys 8y ago
I'm the opposite. I'm 31, live in the South Bay, and am so happy to jump in my car and spend 30 minutes driving to work, sipping coffee, thinking about the day ahead, and listening to news or music. On the way home, the commute is a chance to unwind and relax. I find San Francisco claustrophobic, and I can't think of a more miserable commute than walking to, waiting for, and riding public transportation in the rain or heat with a crowd of other people. I've turned down jobs in the city for that reason. I don't pay any more for the house I'm renting than a decent apartment would cost in the city, and I have a small yard and a quiet neighborhood to live in. I don't know how you city people do it.
- kilbuz 8y ago
  > I don't know how you city people do it. We feel the same about you. :)
- vinceguidry 8y ago
  My big city commute is a half hour walk. Best two parts of my day. If it's raining, I hop on the train.
  - fatnoah 8y ago
    I just moved out of the city and miss my 25 minute walk to work. I'd walk my son to school, which was 1/2 way to my office. Now, it's a 20-35 minute drive + 25-35 minute subway ride. :(
- RandallBrown 8y ago
  Not sure about your commute, but the thing I hated about commuting in a car was the variability of it. I was commuting from Seattle to Bellevue, a distance of about 11 miles. On a really perfect day, it could take 15 minutes. On a normal day it would take between 30-60 minutes. On a bad day it could take up to 2 hours. There were enough bad days that I had to plan everything around that 2 hour commute. After switching to a job in the city, I knew the longest it would ever take me to get home was about an hour and 15 minutes, and that was if I walked.
  - burfog 8y ago
    You were supposed to switch to a house in Bellevue. That too would let you walk to work.
    - umeshunni 8y ago
      It wouldn't. Bellevue is too car centric for that to be true. Wide roads, infrequent crosswalsk, multiple freeways to walk over even for ~1 mile distances.
- xvedejas 8y ago
  I live and work in SF and my commute is mostly walking, including past a park, which helps me wake up or wind down. I also ride a train for about 10 minutes each way and use the time to study foreign language (using apps like duolingo). I find car driving to be claustrophobic in comparison to being outdoors. I can't think of a more miserable commute than trying to be entirely attentive to driving in traffic when not awake yet. I've turned down jobs in the south bay / SoCal for that reason. I don't pay any more for the house I'm renting than a decent apartment would cost in the south bay, and I have a small yard and a quiet neighborhood to live in. (downtown is, after all, only a very small part of SF)
- GordonS 8y ago
  You drink coffee while driving? Seems unwise.
  - maccard 8y ago
    Last time I drove at rush hour, I had enough time to have _made_ coffee while sitting in standstill traffic, nevermind drink it.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
    Where do you live that this is surprising? I see people putting on makeup and checking email while driving. Not while stopped in traffic, actually being in control of a rapidly moving vehicle.
    - ericd 8y ago
      Honestly, that kind of thing should lead to the loss of their license after one instance.
      - wcarron 8y ago
        I sympathize, but disagree. In CA, distracted driving is a moving violation, but does not have points on the license as a penalty. Going nuclear as a 1st response does not help. Increasing fines, mandatory driver education classes for violations, points on a license, and perhaps a lock box (akin to the ignition lock we install for DUI offenders) are, IMO, better measures to take. Repeated offenders should have their vehicle impounded and license suspended for increasing amounts of time per violation e.g. 1st offense - $250 fine + class, 2nd - $500 fine, 3rd - $1500 fine + impound + 1 month suspension, 4th - $2.5k fine + impound + 1yr suspension. 5th time should be 60 day jail sentence, car impounded, license permanently revoked, $5k fine
        ericd 8y ago
        Is typing on your phone while moving at highway speeds much less dangerous than a DUI? A first DUI conviction in CA involves large fines, generally a 6 month license suspension, is a misdemeanor, and potentially up to 6 months in jail. A $250 fine plus class is a joke. The fine for accidentally running a red light in SV is double that. Driving and looking at your phone is not a joke, a car traveling at 70 mph is a lethal weapon that can easily kill entire families in an instant, and it should be treated with commensurate seriousness. I know a couple families that have almost been entirely wiped out due to other drivers, with the survivors left as paraplegics. I think serious penalties for what is seemingly very common might be a shock initially, but once people realize how serious it is, I imagine the infraction rate will drop rather rapidly. Drinking and driving used to be much more common than it is now.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  I think to a large extent it's about personal preferences. I greatly prefer living in a (medium sized, ~1.5m people) city and being able to walk most places and take public transport to the remainder.
- zjaffee 8y ago
  I think a lot of it relates to how extroverted/introverted a person is, or more so, how important being around other people is to them. Additionally, a lot of people have tons of anxiety around driving, and being in a city can completely get rid of that. I'd imagine self driving cars would return some of the interest back into the suburbs.
  - souprock 8y ago
    Yep, or to put it the other way: how important being safe from other people is to them. Additionally, a lot of people have tons of anxiety around strangers, and being in a vehicle can completely get rid of that. The same can probably be said for dependency. Some people want to feel that the government cares for them, while others want privacy and the feeling of accomplishment that comes from living with minimal outside help.
    - kaitai 8y ago
      This doesn't make sense to me. I like the independence that transit brings -- I can go anywhere in my city and not be lugging a huge and expensive personal asset around. I can drink and take transit, I can be tired and take transit, I can take transit in a snowstorm and be assured my chances of experiencing a snow-related mishap are lower. I feel safer in a train or on a bus than on the road, especially in the first snowstorm of the year. I'm a small woman, and I don't really have problems on transit. I feel safer on the train than in an Uber. A guy recently made a pass at me on transit late at night but we ended up chatting and he told me his cornbread dressing recipe. Very useful before Thanksgiving, though I didn't end up making it. I don't want to feel the government cares for me -- I want to know that my tax dollars go to something useful instead of something stupid. Highways don't make me feel like I have "minimal outside help". A bicycle sure does :) Walking does more so!
      - souprock 8y ago
        You don't control when the transit operates, where the transit goes, or what type of equipment is used. You have no ownership. You can do nothing if the line shuts down due to snow on the tracks. This is not independence. The car is fine in snow. There are numerous modern alternatives to the old-style heavy chains, which of course are still available.
- woolvalley 8y ago
  I find car driving annoying, where the only thing I can stimulate my mind with is low value podcasts. I have to divert my attention to anxiety producing driving in a town where people don't give a fuck about turn indicators or other safe driving practices. In a train or an uber I can put on my noise cancelling headphones, sit, read and not have to focus on a road. If the train is full, I can still read standing up. It's like the standing desk :)
- jiveturkey 8y ago
  > live in the South Bay, ... and spend 30 minutes driving to work so, you work locally in the south bay? there is no place north of the south bay within a 30 minute drive during commute times (which extend to 10:30 if you're talking about MTV)
  - deathanatos 8y ago
    The entire South Bay isn't a 30 minute commute. Where I live in the South Bay, Moutain View is quite often >45 minutes, sometimes 50+. The HOV lane is nowadays clogged w/ single occupant stickered electrics, or people cheating b/c it isn't enforced. The non-HOV lanes are worse.
- deathanatos 8y ago
  > I've turned down jobs in the city for that reason. Not all of us, I feel, really have this luxury. Each time I've had a job change, the overwhelming majority of fish biting are in SF. Not all of my changes have been voluntary, and I've seen numerous people imply that switching too often is a huge flag. I'd love something in the South Bay, but I feel like it's mostly FAANG down here, and if you're looking for something smaller, and perhaps more meaningful… So I hop on the terrible public transit and keep looking for jobs — outside of CA, because the entire Bay Area is frankly never going to pull its collective head out of the ground and fix the housing crisis.
- roflchoppa 8y ago
  What kind of car do you drive?
rconti 8y ago
No shit, your quality of life is poor when you spend a minimum 1/8 of your waking day trying to get to and from work? You're framing it as a "man, suburbs suck" argument when it's more like "man, choosing a job really bloody far from home really sucks".
- draw_down 8y ago
  Come on.
- seizethecheese 8y ago
  Terrible traffic and extremely high housing costs with low housing density makes it very hard to live near work in Silicon Valley.
  - rconti 8y ago
    But I'm not sure living in San Francisco (the most expensive place) then commuting a very long way to somewhere that is actually cheaper to live is the obvious fix. But, as a homeowner, I get that it's not so easy to pack up and move every time your job changes addresses.
cleandreams 8y ago
I commuted for 12 years from SF to HP in Cupertino. 1 hour each way. Finally I realized that was about one extra work week / month, just in the car. That put me off car commutes forever. I have mostly worked in SF since I left that job, I was even able to walk to work at 2 jobs. That is the best. Now I commute to the East Bay, but I'm able to do that on Bart. That is manageable. I mostly meditate which is good for me but otherwise would be hard to find time for.
- i_am_nomad 8y ago
  If your home and work are right near BART stations, then that's really not bad. The killer is when you have to do "last mile" commuting, and the commute becomes multimodal. I'm doing that now and I absolutely hate it.
  - Doctor_Fegg 8y ago
    May not work in the Bay Area, but the London solution for that is a Brompton folding bike.
    - walshemj 8y ago
      Seconded if I was lured back to London id get a Brompton ideally on the tax efficient ride to work plan.
  - souprock 8y ago
    The killer is probably waiting at the BART stop. BART has this "last mile" problem partly due to negligent police.
- DoubleCribble 8y ago
  Try the ferry. Once you get a whiff of sitting outside on the bay during a beautiful sunset commute, breathing in the urine odors of your typical BART car will never seem a viable alternative.

avalys 8y ago

I'm the opposite. I'm 31, live in the South Bay, and am so happy to jump in my car and spend 30 minutes driving to work, sipping coffee, thinking about the day ahead, and listening to news or music. On the way home, the commute is a chance to unwind and relax. I find San Francisco claustrophobic, and I can't think of a more miserable commute than walking to, waiting for, and riding public transportation in the rain or heat with a crowd of other people. I've turned down jobs in the city for that reason. I don't pay any more for the house I'm renting than a decent apartment would cost in the city, and I have a small yard and a quiet neighborhood to live in. I don't know how you city people do it.

kilbuz 8y ago
> I don't know how you city people do it. We feel the same about you. :)
vinceguidry 8y ago
My big city commute is a half hour walk. Best two parts of my day. If it's raining, I hop on the train.
- fatnoah 8y ago
  I just moved out of the city and miss my 25 minute walk to work. I'd walk my son to school, which was 1/2 way to my office. Now, it's a 20-35 minute drive + 25-35 minute subway ride. :(
RandallBrown 8y ago
Not sure about your commute, but the thing I hated about commuting in a car was the variability of it. I was commuting from Seattle to Bellevue, a distance of about 11 miles. On a really perfect day, it could take 15 minutes. On a normal day it would take between 30-60 minutes. On a bad day it could take up to 2 hours. There were enough bad days that I had to plan everything around that 2 hour commute. After switching to a job in the city, I knew the longest it would ever take me to get home was about an hour and 15 minutes, and that was if I walked.
- burfog 8y ago
  You were supposed to switch to a house in Bellevue. That too would let you walk to work.
  - umeshunni 8y ago
    It wouldn't. Bellevue is too car centric for that to be true. Wide roads, infrequent crosswalsk, multiple freeways to walk over even for ~1 mile distances.
xvedejas 8y ago
I live and work in SF and my commute is mostly walking, including past a park, which helps me wake up or wind down. I also ride a train for about 10 minutes each way and use the time to study foreign language (using apps like duolingo). I find car driving to be claustrophobic in comparison to being outdoors. I can't think of a more miserable commute than trying to be entirely attentive to driving in traffic when not awake yet. I've turned down jobs in the south bay / SoCal for that reason. I don't pay any more for the house I'm renting than a decent apartment would cost in the south bay, and I have a small yard and a quiet neighborhood to live in. (downtown is, after all, only a very small part of SF)
GordonS 8y ago
You drink coffee while driving? Seems unwise.
- maccard 8y ago
  Last time I drove at rush hour, I had enough time to have _made_ coffee while sitting in standstill traffic, nevermind drink it.
- HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
  Where do you live that this is surprising? I see people putting on makeup and checking email while driving. Not while stopped in traffic, actually being in control of a rapidly moving vehicle.
  - ericd 8y ago
    Honestly, that kind of thing should lead to the loss of their license after one instance.
    - wcarron 8y ago
      I sympathize, but disagree. In CA, distracted driving is a moving violation, but does not have points on the license as a penalty. Going nuclear as a 1st response does not help. Increasing fines, mandatory driver education classes for violations, points on a license, and perhaps a lock box (akin to the ignition lock we install for DUI offenders) are, IMO, better measures to take. Repeated offenders should have their vehicle impounded and license suspended for increasing amounts of time per violation e.g. 1st offense - $250 fine + class, 2nd - $500 fine, 3rd - $1500 fine + impound + 1 month suspension, 4th - $2.5k fine + impound + 1yr suspension. 5th time should be 60 day jail sentence, car impounded, license permanently revoked, $5k fine
      - ericd 8y ago
        Is typing on your phone while moving at highway speeds much less dangerous than a DUI? A first DUI conviction in CA involves large fines, generally a 6 month license suspension, is a misdemeanor, and potentially up to 6 months in jail. A $250 fine plus class is a joke. The fine for accidentally running a red light in SV is double that. Driving and looking at your phone is not a joke, a car traveling at 70 mph is a lethal weapon that can easily kill entire families in an instant, and it should be treated with commensurate seriousness. I know a couple families that have almost been entirely wiped out due to other drivers, with the survivors left as paraplegics. I think serious penalties for what is seemingly very common might be a shock initially, but once people realize how serious it is, I imagine the infraction rate will drop rather rapidly. Drinking and driving used to be much more common than it is now.
rsynnott 8y ago
I think to a large extent it's about personal preferences. I greatly prefer living in a (medium sized, ~1.5m people) city and being able to walk most places and take public transport to the remainder.
zjaffee 8y ago
I think a lot of it relates to how extroverted/introverted a person is, or more so, how important being around other people is to them. Additionally, a lot of people have tons of anxiety around driving, and being in a city can completely get rid of that. I'd imagine self driving cars would return some of the interest back into the suburbs.
- souprock 8y ago
  Yep, or to put it the other way: how important being safe from other people is to them. Additionally, a lot of people have tons of anxiety around strangers, and being in a vehicle can completely get rid of that. The same can probably be said for dependency. Some people want to feel that the government cares for them, while others want privacy and the feeling of accomplishment that comes from living with minimal outside help.
  - kaitai 8y ago
    This doesn't make sense to me. I like the independence that transit brings -- I can go anywhere in my city and not be lugging a huge and expensive personal asset around. I can drink and take transit, I can be tired and take transit, I can take transit in a snowstorm and be assured my chances of experiencing a snow-related mishap are lower. I feel safer in a train or on a bus than on the road, especially in the first snowstorm of the year. I'm a small woman, and I don't really have problems on transit. I feel safer on the train than in an Uber. A guy recently made a pass at me on transit late at night but we ended up chatting and he told me his cornbread dressing recipe. Very useful before Thanksgiving, though I didn't end up making it. I don't want to feel the government cares for me -- I want to know that my tax dollars go to something useful instead of something stupid. Highways don't make me feel like I have "minimal outside help". A bicycle sure does :) Walking does more so!
    - souprock 8y ago
      You don't control when the transit operates, where the transit goes, or what type of equipment is used. You have no ownership. You can do nothing if the line shuts down due to snow on the tracks. This is not independence. The car is fine in snow. There are numerous modern alternatives to the old-style heavy chains, which of course are still available.
woolvalley 8y ago
I find car driving annoying, where the only thing I can stimulate my mind with is low value podcasts. I have to divert my attention to anxiety producing driving in a town where people don't give a fuck about turn indicators or other safe driving practices. In a train or an uber I can put on my noise cancelling headphones, sit, read and not have to focus on a road. If the train is full, I can still read standing up. It's like the standing desk :)
jiveturkey 8y ago
> live in the South Bay, ... and spend 30 minutes driving to work so, you work locally in the south bay? there is no place north of the south bay within a 30 minute drive during commute times (which extend to 10:30 if you're talking about MTV)
- deathanatos 8y ago
  The entire South Bay isn't a 30 minute commute. Where I live in the South Bay, Moutain View is quite often >45 minutes, sometimes 50+. The HOV lane is nowadays clogged w/ single occupant stickered electrics, or people cheating b/c it isn't enforced. The non-HOV lanes are worse.
deathanatos 8y ago
> I've turned down jobs in the city for that reason. Not all of us, I feel, really have this luxury. Each time I've had a job change, the overwhelming majority of fish biting are in SF. Not all of my changes have been voluntary, and I've seen numerous people imply that switching too often is a huge flag. I'd love something in the South Bay, but I feel like it's mostly FAANG down here, and if you're looking for something smaller, and perhaps more meaningful… So I hop on the terrible public transit and keep looking for jobs — outside of CA, because the entire Bay Area is frankly never going to pull its collective head out of the ground and fix the housing crisis.
roflchoppa 8y ago
What kind of car do you drive?

rconti 8y ago

No shit, your quality of life is poor when you spend a minimum 1/8 of your waking day trying to get to and from work? You're framing it as a "man, suburbs suck" argument when it's more like "man, choosing a job really bloody far from home really sucks".

draw_down 8y ago
Come on.
seizethecheese 8y ago
Terrible traffic and extremely high housing costs with low housing density makes it very hard to live near work in Silicon Valley.
- rconti 8y ago
  But I'm not sure living in San Francisco (the most expensive place) then commuting a very long way to somewhere that is actually cheaper to live is the obvious fix. But, as a homeowner, I get that it's not so easy to pack up and move every time your job changes addresses.

cleandreams 8y ago

I commuted for 12 years from SF to HP in Cupertino. 1 hour each way. Finally I realized that was about one extra work week / month, just in the car. That put me off car commutes forever. I have mostly worked in SF since I left that job, I was even able to walk to work at 2 jobs. That is the best. Now I commute to the East Bay, but I'm able to do that on Bart. That is manageable. I mostly meditate which is good for me but otherwise would be hard to find time for.

i_am_nomad 8y ago
If your home and work are right near BART stations, then that's really not bad. The killer is when you have to do "last mile" commuting, and the commute becomes multimodal. I'm doing that now and I absolutely hate it.
- Doctor_Fegg 8y ago
  May not work in the Bay Area, but the London solution for that is a Brompton folding bike.
  - walshemj 8y ago
    Seconded if I was lured back to London id get a Brompton ideally on the tax efficient ride to work plan.
- souprock 8y ago
  The killer is probably waiting at the BART stop. BART has this "last mile" problem partly due to negligent police.
DoubleCribble 8y ago
Try the ferry. Once you get a whiff of sitting outside on the bay during a beautiful sunset commute, breathing in the urine odors of your typical BART car will never seem a viable alternative.