4 ms·

Wow, if this is not propaganda... One party rule is a joke. 50 years ago China was a backwater and it wasn't until the 80s when they experimented with capitali

by yardie 16y ago

Wow, if this is not propaganda... One party rule is a joke. 50 years ago China was a backwater and it wasn't until the 80s when they experimented with capitalism that they even got to this point. 50 years ago the big government plan was planting enough rice to feed everyone. So how much of that 10, 20, 50 year plan was put into effect? Anyway I wouldn't consider any Chinatown a positive. Except in a few countries (Singapore) Indians don't have an Indian Town because it isn't necessary. Chinatowns exist because of a failure for chinese immigrants to integrate. So they turn to an insular community that can provide resources that they are reluctant to ask of their native neighbors. In every Chinatown I have been to it is always, always the rich chinese exploiting the ignorant immigrants. This will be the diner that pays staff less than minimum wage, landlords subdividing apartments, and others extracting a royalty for getting you a job. And lets not get started on how local gangs have infused themselves into Chinatown.

kajecounterhack 16y ago
Hey. Capitalism and real-world economics saved China, yes. But they were and are still under one-party rule when it happened. Their meritocracy, as corrupt as it can be, is just another approach to solving the problem of government and imho is as valid as any western approach. You cannot overlook the efficiencies of their system in comparison to western governments. There are both pros and cons but it's kind of narrow-minded to say it's all negative. Also I find your generalizations about Chinatown a bit offensive. "Chinatowns exist because of a failure for chinese immigrants to integrate." Isn't this true of every cluster of immigrants? You make it sound like it's easy to integrate or something. "In every Chinatown I have been to it is always, always the rich chinese exploiting the ignorant immigrants. This will be the diner that pays staff less than minimum wage, landlords subdividing apartments, and others extracting a royalty for getting you a job. And lets not get started on how local gangs have infused themselves into Chinatown." How many chinatowns have you been to, and I'm sure you know all the landlords and people helping each other out. I think you're giving immigrants less credit than they deserve. It's hella hard just to decide to stick around here. You can also look up Asian-american bias -- integration isn't just about Asians wanting to integrate. There is a fair amount of anti-asian sentiment in the US. "So they turn to an insular community that can provide resources that they are reluctant to ask of their native neighbors." << This kind of generalization implies that an immigrant has a relationship with their "native neighbors" which is hardly the case when you've just arrived. Thinking about it the other way around: if you didn't speak Chinese very well and moved to China, wouldn't you also tend toward other english speakers? It's damn hard not to rely on someone you can talk to, when you can barely communicate with your plumber.
- rdl 16y ago
  I thought most Chinatowns in the US were basically historical legacies, back from when there was explicit legal discrimination against Chinese. I sure don't see Chinese university graduates doing H1B work in California living in SF Chinatown; Mountain View, Palo Alto, and SoMA are a lot more popular. Second and third generation Asians (although not necessarily or mostly Chinese) seem to live in specific neighborhoods like Daly City, but this is primarily old people and poor people. Modern economic immigrants assimilate; modern refugee-type immigrants (e.g. the huge town of Somalis in Maine) self-segregate. The huge Vietnamese community on the West Coast is sort of in both camps -- the older people came right after the Vietnam war as "boat people" refugees, and today a lot of people come from Vietnam for economic reasons and live elsewhere.
  - yardie 16y ago
    It's possible on the west coast that have older chinatowns, on the east coast chinatowns just followed the immigration trend. Most are based around where previous immigrant groups settled than moved away. Chinatown new york was an italian enclave, chinatown boston was an irish enclave. Newer ones formed because of racial and economic reasons. C-town brooklyn and queens are newer and the families that live around there are financially better and socially more integrated in the area. The story I was told is you land in Manhattan, buy your first apartment in brooklyn and buy your first house in New Jersey or Connecticut.
- yardie 16y ago
  The russians also had one party rule with 5, 10, and 50 year plans and how did that turn out? More dissenters dead and disappeared than all world wars combined. Grand projects rusting away in former soviet blocs. And the supposed efficiency comes at the price of peoples lives and property. I can assure you the people living around the Olympic village weren't delighted to be kicked out of their homes. I'm not saying. So when you make the rules and can apply them as you please damn right its easy to be efficient. I don't know how you can find my generalization offensive but not your own. Chinatowns exists because they are a net positive how? Yet Indians, Malays, Japanese, and Koreans don't need them. I've been only to the C-Towns on the east coast, and lived in one. And it is the rich chinese exploiting the poor. You don't hear about white, blacks, indians, or any other nationalities exploiting immigrants in chinatown. It took NYCPD a decade and a half to crack the triads in NYC C-Town and they are still exert a lot of influence. As to asian american bias this argument is weak since out of all emigrants (except europeans) Asians face the lowest amount of overall discrimination. Americans don't trust the chinese-americans to run the country (due to that same insular community being perceived as unloyal) but they trust them more than they do africans or african americans to do business with according to this study http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93457 http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93457. I've never met a taxi driver that says he won't pick up chinese or wouldn't stop in chinatown. If I did move to China I wouldn't restrict myself to english enclaves, working for english businesses and only befriending english speaking people. But I'm not your typical american either.
zephyrfalcon 16y ago
"the diner that pays staff less than minimum wage" It seems this is customary for most restaurants in the US, Chinese or otherwise.

by yardie 16y ago

kajecounterhack 16y ago

Hey. Capitalism and real-world economics saved China, yes. But they were and are still under one-party rule when it happened. Their meritocracy, as corrupt as it can be, is just another approach to solving the problem of government and imho is as valid as any western approach. You cannot overlook the efficiencies of their system in comparison to western governments. There are both pros and cons but it's kind of narrow-minded to say it's all negative. Also I find your generalizations about Chinatown a bit offensive. "Chinatowns exist because of a failure for chinese immigrants to integrate." Isn't this true of every cluster of immigrants? You make it sound like it's easy to integrate or something. "In every Chinatown I have been to it is always, always the rich chinese exploiting the ignorant immigrants. This will be the diner that pays staff less than minimum wage, landlords subdividing apartments, and others extracting a royalty for getting you a job. And lets not get started on how local gangs have infused themselves into Chinatown." How many chinatowns have you been to, and I'm sure you know all the landlords and people helping each other out. I think you're giving immigrants less credit than they deserve. It's hella hard just to decide to stick around here. You can also look up Asian-american bias -- integration isn't just about Asians wanting to integrate. There is a fair amount of anti-asian sentiment in the US. "So they turn to an insular community that can provide resources that they are reluctant to ask of their native neighbors." << This kind of generalization implies that an immigrant has a relationship with their "native neighbors" which is hardly the case when you've just arrived. Thinking about it the other way around: if you didn't speak Chinese very well and moved to China, wouldn't you also tend toward other english speakers? It's damn hard not to rely on someone you can talk to, when you can barely communicate with your plumber.

rdl 16y ago
I thought most Chinatowns in the US were basically historical legacies, back from when there was explicit legal discrimination against Chinese. I sure don't see Chinese university graduates doing H1B work in California living in SF Chinatown; Mountain View, Palo Alto, and SoMA are a lot more popular. Second and third generation Asians (although not necessarily or mostly Chinese) seem to live in specific neighborhoods like Daly City, but this is primarily old people and poor people. Modern economic immigrants assimilate; modern refugee-type immigrants (e.g. the huge town of Somalis in Maine) self-segregate. The huge Vietnamese community on the West Coast is sort of in both camps -- the older people came right after the Vietnam war as "boat people" refugees, and today a lot of people come from Vietnam for economic reasons and live elsewhere.
- yardie 16y ago
  It's possible on the west coast that have older chinatowns, on the east coast chinatowns just followed the immigration trend. Most are based around where previous immigrant groups settled than moved away. Chinatown new york was an italian enclave, chinatown boston was an irish enclave. Newer ones formed because of racial and economic reasons. C-town brooklyn and queens are newer and the families that live around there are financially better and socially more integrated in the area. The story I was told is you land in Manhattan, buy your first apartment in brooklyn and buy your first house in New Jersey or Connecticut.
yardie 16y ago
The russians also had one party rule with 5, 10, and 50 year plans and how did that turn out? More dissenters dead and disappeared than all world wars combined. Grand projects rusting away in former soviet blocs. And the supposed efficiency comes at the price of peoples lives and property. I can assure you the people living around the Olympic village weren't delighted to be kicked out of their homes. I'm not saying. So when you make the rules and can apply them as you please damn right its easy to be efficient. I don't know how you can find my generalization offensive but not your own. Chinatowns exists because they are a net positive how? Yet Indians, Malays, Japanese, and Koreans don't need them. I've been only to the C-Towns on the east coast, and lived in one. And it is the rich chinese exploiting the poor. You don't hear about white, blacks, indians, or any other nationalities exploiting immigrants in chinatown. It took NYCPD a decade and a half to crack the triads in NYC C-Town and they are still exert a lot of influence. As to asian american bias this argument is weak since out of all emigrants (except europeans) Asians face the lowest amount of overall discrimination. Americans don't trust the chinese-americans to run the country (due to that same insular community being perceived as unloyal) but they trust them more than they do africans or african americans to do business with according to this study http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93457 http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93457. I've never met a taxi driver that says he won't pick up chinese or wouldn't stop in chinatown. If I did move to China I wouldn't restrict myself to english enclaves, working for english businesses and only befriending english speaking people. But I'm not your typical american either.

zephyrfalcon 16y ago

"the diner that pays staff less than minimum wage" It seems this is customary for most restaurants in the US, Chinese or otherwise.