3 ms·

> I personally don't think religion has a large effect on opioid use or suicide but if it does have one it's a positive one. That was my point. As for insulti

by all2 8y ago

> I personally don't think religion has a large effect on opioid use or suicide but if it does have one it's a positive one. That was my point. As for insulting people, that isn't my intent. I have only my own observations to go on, and I don't know other people's situations or story, especially religion. My personal experience has been rather shallow. No one asks hard questions, no one talks about God unless they're forced into it, especially at church. Part of my (rather sad) interpretation of my experiences is that I have questions that are hard, that no one wants to answer. And I'm not able to ask those questions and get a useful answer. So, my interpretation is stained.

swsieber 8y ago
What do you mean by hard questions? Does it include things like "what happens after we die?"? I think those questions are best answered by religion, but religion is being attacked, or at the very least, excluded in most thought-provoking venues. Take for example the school that reject have Chick-fil-A on campus because of its (Chick-fil-A's) religious leanings[0]. Or the fact discussing religion on this very website is generally frowned upon - though that seems to be a reaction to people's recent animosity towards religion. [0] https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/school-blocks-chick-fil-dining-option-cites-values-59439397 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/school-blocks-chick-fil-... ---- That said, I think religion can have a very real effect on opioid use/suicide, depending on the religion. See for example Utah, where the opiod rates, suicide rates and pornography rates are above average. I think that's a result of a complex interplay of factors. I think the gist of what's going on is that the "mormon" culture has squashed many visible vices - smoking, alcohol consumption and physical infidelity. Combine that with a streak of being judgmental / people trying to fit in (TGF, not in all places), and you get an over expression of harder to see negative effects: pornography consumption (though maybe Utahns just pay more for it... being more honest about it?), opioid use, and depression leading to suicide. ---- With all that said, (disclaimer: I'm a member) I think the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has plenty of missionaries who love to talk about (and answer) the hard questions (if I'm interpreting your post right). And I'm willing to talk about them too (my username as a gmail account). I'm not sure the answers will be satisfactory to you, but I've found them useful.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  > Take for example the school that reject have Chick-fil-A on campus because of its (Chick-fil-A's) religious leanings[0]. Or the fact discussing religion on this very website is generally frowned upon - though that seems to be a reaction to people's recent animosity towards religion. That article you linked seems to suggest that the school doesn't like Chick-fil-A's leanings towards gay rights. Do you tie gay rights into a religious ideals? Is it animosity towards religion, or is it animosity towards anti-gay forces? I for one have certainly met militant atheists, so I'm not going to pretend that militant atheism doesn't exist, but they're a very small minority of people. Most atheists I've seen are willing to listen to me talk to them about religion. They're curious, growing up with a life without religion, and they are interested in what growing up in a religious family is like. But where the line is drawn is when rights of others are trampled upon.
  - swsieber 8y ago
    Interesting. I did not realize the history behind Chick-fil-A. I stand corrected - that was a poor example. The extent of my knowledge there was the christian underpinnings of Chick-fil-A's founder and the statements made in the article.
    - dragontamer 8y ago
      Yeah, I'll again say that I've 100% met militant atheists before and they're quite an annoying bunch. But... > The extent of my knowledge there was the christian underpinnings of Chick-fil-A's founder and the statements made in the article. In the majority of these cases, people usually don't care about religion, as much as political views. IE: They may be pro-choice (while religious are typically pro-life), and that's what they're really annoyed about. Or in this case, the Chick-Fil-A situation is 100% a gay rights issue more so than anything else. Even the "Satanic Temple" is really just a bunch of trolls / a political group who are mostly concerned about separation of church-and-state issues. The "Satanic Temple" just uses the same tactics as right-wingnuts do: "Trigger the snowflakes". In any case, the entire strategy is to try to make the other side look bad by trolling and acting worse. I severely doubt that anyone in the Satanic Temple actually worships Satan, they seem to be atheists / secularists for the most part. ------------ Again, militant atheists who look down upon religion certainly exist. But they aren't commonly in major positions of power in my experience. So I'm always weary when any group blames things as a "War on Christians".
AnimalMuppet 8y ago
> Part of my (rather sad) interpretation of my experiences is that I have questions that are hard, that no one wants to answer. And I'm not able to ask those questions and get a useful answer. That's unfortunate. However, there are people who are not at all afraid of the hard questions. I see from your profile that you're at UW Madison. As it happens, I know such a person there. (He's almost certainly going to become my son in law.) If you want someone to deal seriously with the hard questions, contact me at mikestimpson (at) yahoo (dot) com.

by all2 8y ago

swsieber 8y ago

What do you mean by hard questions? Does it include things like "what happens after we die?"? I think those questions are best answered by religion, but religion is being attacked, or at the very least, excluded in most thought-provoking venues. Take for example the school that reject have Chick-fil-A on campus because of its (Chick-fil-A's) religious leanings[0]. Or the fact discussing religion on this very website is generally frowned upon - though that seems to be a reaction to people's recent animosity towards religion. [0] https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/school-blocks-chick-fil-dining-option-cites-values-59439397 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/school-blocks-chick-fil-... ---- That said, I think religion can have a very real effect on opioid use/suicide, depending on the religion. See for example Utah, where the opiod rates, suicide rates and pornography rates are above average. I think that's a result of a complex interplay of factors. I think the gist of what's going on is that the "mormon" culture has squashed many visible vices - smoking, alcohol consumption and physical infidelity. Combine that with a streak of being judgmental / people trying to fit in (TGF, not in all places), and you get an over expression of harder to see negative effects: pornography consumption (though maybe Utahns just pay more for it... being more honest about it?), opioid use, and depression leading to suicide. ---- With all that said, (disclaimer: I'm a member) I think the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has plenty of missionaries who love to talk about (and answer) the hard questions (if I'm interpreting your post right). And I'm willing to talk about them too (my username as a gmail account). I'm not sure the answers will be satisfactory to you, but I've found them useful.

dragontamer 8y ago
> Take for example the school that reject have Chick-fil-A on campus because of its (Chick-fil-A's) religious leanings[0]. Or the fact discussing religion on this very website is generally frowned upon - though that seems to be a reaction to people's recent animosity towards religion. That article you linked seems to suggest that the school doesn't like Chick-fil-A's leanings towards gay rights. Do you tie gay rights into a religious ideals? Is it animosity towards religion, or is it animosity towards anti-gay forces? I for one have certainly met militant atheists, so I'm not going to pretend that militant atheism doesn't exist, but they're a very small minority of people. Most atheists I've seen are willing to listen to me talk to them about religion. They're curious, growing up with a life without religion, and they are interested in what growing up in a religious family is like. But where the line is drawn is when rights of others are trampled upon.
- swsieber 8y ago
  Interesting. I did not realize the history behind Chick-fil-A. I stand corrected - that was a poor example. The extent of my knowledge there was the christian underpinnings of Chick-fil-A's founder and the statements made in the article.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    Yeah, I'll again say that I've 100% met militant atheists before and they're quite an annoying bunch. But... > The extent of my knowledge there was the christian underpinnings of Chick-fil-A's founder and the statements made in the article. In the majority of these cases, people usually don't care about religion, as much as political views. IE: They may be pro-choice (while religious are typically pro-life), and that's what they're really annoyed about. Or in this case, the Chick-Fil-A situation is 100% a gay rights issue more so than anything else. Even the "Satanic Temple" is really just a bunch of trolls / a political group who are mostly concerned about separation of church-and-state issues. The "Satanic Temple" just uses the same tactics as right-wingnuts do: "Trigger the snowflakes". In any case, the entire strategy is to try to make the other side look bad by trolling and acting worse. I severely doubt that anyone in the Satanic Temple actually worships Satan, they seem to be atheists / secularists for the most part. ------------ Again, militant atheists who look down upon religion certainly exist. But they aren't commonly in major positions of power in my experience. So I'm always weary when any group blames things as a "War on Christians".

AnimalMuppet 8y ago

> Part of my (rather sad) interpretation of my experiences is that I have questions that are hard, that no one wants to answer. And I'm not able to ask those questions and get a useful answer. That's unfortunate. However, there are people who are not at all afraid of the hard questions. I see from your profile that you're at UW Madison. As it happens, I know such a person there. (He's almost certainly going to become my son in law.) If you want someone to deal seriously with the hard questions, contact me at mikestimpson (at) yahoo (dot) com.