4 ms·

I think it's the same issue as the prison population being so enormous. When someone does crime/drugs the country collectively just thinks that these people did

I think it's the same issue as the prison population being so enormous. When someone does crime/drugs the country collectively just thinks that these people did it to themselves. I've heard people casually refer to criminals/addicts as animals, it's ridiculous.

JoeAltmaier 8y ago
Yes that's sad. But consider: what would you call someone who injected strangers with noxious drugs and enjoyed their torment? An animal? Is it so big a leap to think the same, when they're doing it to themselves?
- Frondo 8y ago
  No, no person is a animal and it's misguided and inappropriate to make the comparison. People who behave cruelly aren't animals, they're people who behave cruelly and we should seek to minimize/stop their cruelty and ability to inflict it. Drug users, willing or no, also aren't animals. Drug users who want to stop should be given all the tools necessary to kick their habits. Drug users who don't want to stop should be given the tools necessary to reduce the harm to themselves and to society. Anything else is barbaric.
  - cryptonerd2212 8y ago
    Technically, we are animals.
    - stupidbird 8y ago
      We're not discussing taxonomy, so this is completely irrelevant.
- MichaelApproved 8y ago
  Yes, it's a major leap and the fact that you can't see it is concerning. If you are enjoying someone else's tourment, especially after you inflicted that tourment onto them, then you are a psychopath. People who take drugs aren't taking it for the hangover, they are taking it for the high. If you remove the tormenting hangover, 100% of users would be fine with that. You should seek psychiatric help and I'd be happy if my tax dollars were used to help you with your mental problems.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    Ha! Just playing devil's advocate, to help folks understand the alarm with which some folks see drug abuse. I actually work in helping abusers control their addiction. I have all the access to mental health services I need, thanks.
- PavlovsCat 8y ago
  This "I'm not arguing this, but it could be argued" is such a waste of time. If you say it's "not so big a leap", make the argument? After all it doesn't matter if a leap is big or not, that's always related to the gap it needs to cross. If argument holds and you end up on the other side, it wasn't so big a leap. But it's pointless to talk how a leap is feasible instead of simply making it, leaving that as some sort of exercise for the reader. I guess it would be actually two arguments, 1.) calling sociopaths animals 2.) the equating of injecting others with something for the purpose of torturing them with injecting oneself with drugs, for the reasons and purposes people actually do that. Not sure how you would funnel the wide variety of reasons people end up addicted to drugs into something that could be compared with a single situation and motivation like that hypothetical torturer, but then again you haven't made the argument yet, so maybe you know something I overlooked.
- stupidbird 8y ago
  What would you call someone who compelled strangers to buy low-quality things they don't need? What would you call someone who tricked children into getting addicted to mobile games? What would you call someone who knowingly buys products manufactured under poor labor conditions? What do you call someone who willingly eats meat produced in cruel environments? You can play this game all day. This isn't the point. They're all people — they have families, wants and needs, they dream at night. They're all just trying to get by one way or another. They're no more discardable than you or me.

JoeAltmaier 8y ago

Yes that's sad. But consider: what would you call someone who injected strangers with noxious drugs and enjoyed their torment? An animal? Is it so big a leap to think the same, when they're doing it to themselves?

Frondo 8y ago
No, no person is a animal and it's misguided and inappropriate to make the comparison. People who behave cruelly aren't animals, they're people who behave cruelly and we should seek to minimize/stop their cruelty and ability to inflict it. Drug users, willing or no, also aren't animals. Drug users who want to stop should be given all the tools necessary to kick their habits. Drug users who don't want to stop should be given the tools necessary to reduce the harm to themselves and to society. Anything else is barbaric.
- cryptonerd2212 8y ago
  Technically, we are animals.
  - stupidbird 8y ago
    We're not discussing taxonomy, so this is completely irrelevant.
MichaelApproved 8y ago
Yes, it's a major leap and the fact that you can't see it is concerning. If you are enjoying someone else's tourment, especially after you inflicted that tourment onto them, then you are a psychopath. People who take drugs aren't taking it for the hangover, they are taking it for the high. If you remove the tormenting hangover, 100% of users would be fine with that. You should seek psychiatric help and I'd be happy if my tax dollars were used to help you with your mental problems.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  Ha! Just playing devil's advocate, to help folks understand the alarm with which some folks see drug abuse. I actually work in helping abusers control their addiction. I have all the access to mental health services I need, thanks.
PavlovsCat 8y ago
This "I'm not arguing this, but it could be argued" is such a waste of time. If you say it's "not so big a leap", make the argument? After all it doesn't matter if a leap is big or not, that's always related to the gap it needs to cross. If argument holds and you end up on the other side, it wasn't so big a leap. But it's pointless to talk how a leap is feasible instead of simply making it, leaving that as some sort of exercise for the reader. I guess it would be actually two arguments, 1.) calling sociopaths animals 2.) the equating of injecting others with something for the purpose of torturing them with injecting oneself with drugs, for the reasons and purposes people actually do that. Not sure how you would funnel the wide variety of reasons people end up addicted to drugs into something that could be compared with a single situation and motivation like that hypothetical torturer, but then again you haven't made the argument yet, so maybe you know something I overlooked.
stupidbird 8y ago
What would you call someone who compelled strangers to buy low-quality things they don't need? What would you call someone who tricked children into getting addicted to mobile games? What would you call someone who knowingly buys products manufactured under poor labor conditions? What do you call someone who willingly eats meat produced in cruel environments? You can play this game all day. This isn't the point. They're all people — they have families, wants and needs, they dream at night. They're all just trying to get by one way or another. They're no more discardable than you or me.