3 ms·

You're largely brainwashed. I know a fair number of people who have taken and/or continue to take Ecstasy, LSD, Mushrooms and even Cocaine, some of them on a ve

by swombat 16y ago

You're largely brainwashed. I know a fair number of people who have taken and/or continue to take Ecstasy, LSD, Mushrooms and even Cocaine, some of them on a very regular basis. None of them have ever "blown their kidneys" or, in fact, had any severe negative reaction. As non-anecdotal evidence, about a million people take ecstasy every weekend in the UK - that's not the same million people each time, so that amounts to millions of active users in the UK. If Ecstasy was so dangerous, you would see it on newspaper headlines every day. Possible causes of your friend's unfortunate disaster include: 1) It wasn't MDMA/MDA (typical Ecstasy components), as binarymax suggested. Until drugs are legal, who the hell knows what you're actually taking. Could be anything, including washing powder. Unlikely to be actually poisonous stuff, since dealers like repeat customers too, but really, it could be anything. 2) Your friend took an exceptional amount, was not used to intoxicating substances, and had very fragile kidneys. Perhaps his kidneys were about to give up anyway, and Ecstasy just pushed him over the edge. Maybe a good drunken night would have done the same thing. 3) It was just a coincidence. I suspect a combination of 1 and 2... probably it wasn't Ecstasy, and your friend was already in danger of blowing his kidneys anyway.

Groxx 16y ago
I actually did a research paper on rave culture a few years back. Pretty eye-opening; a fairly significant amount more people had died from drinking too much Red Bull than from taking ecstasy, even including where it was laced with cyanide / something equally bad to consume. It's literally one of the safest street drugs around. ---- Some fun numbers from http://thedea.org/technicalFAQ.html http://thedea.org/technicalFAQ.html: >"MDMA-present" drug deaths occur at a rate of aproximately 2-3 users per 100,000 users/year. ... cigarettes ... on the order of 400 deaths per 100,000 users/year With only "a handful" US-annually where it was the only drug, out of less than a hundred. Think alcohol can claim that?
- NickPollard 16y ago
  That's some pretty interesting research, although that's looking at per user rather than per-use - I'm guessing that there's a difference if you adjusted for number of hits (I'm assuming the average smoker smokes a lot more cigarettes than the average ecstasy user pops pills).
  - Quarrelsome 16y ago
    It can really vary depending on how far you want to go with it. At the peak of usage in my youth we were all taking in excess of 30 a week, some even 30 in one evening (dropping 4 each time)! Interesting things start to happen when you get that deep, such "mid-week blues". Where you just get really upset half-way through the week (the other side of the weekends), teary and somewhat irrational. Typically this is around the point where people give it up due to the side-effects. We knew we were taking too many when we uttered the words: "its tuesday, so we'll only have 6". Thankfully it isn't at all addictive so it's not hard to stop. :)
  - Groxx 16y ago
    There's validity to that... but if so, what does this imply about the two drugs? Apparently that ecstasy users are far less likely to increase their use to unsafe levels - ie, less addictive. And if not, it's even safer than it appears to be, because I'd imagine most people make the same assumption. Either way, it falls solidly on the side favoring ecstasy over tobacco. How would you define a "hit" anyway? Doses don't really compare, and even if it's 1-cigarette/1-pill, it's all societal how much is in each "dose"...
    - NickPollard 16y ago
      It does seem like a pretty tough problem to define, and the issue of addictiveness really clouds the issue. If you try to say, what is more dangerous - taking one ecstasy tab or one cigarette - even if the ecstasy is more dangerous in the short term, the possibility of addiction could make the cigarette much worse. I guess maybe you could work the other way - start with say, 1 cigarette, and then try to calculate what amount of ecstasy is an equivalent dose? However I would guess that it fluctuates largely on how much you have at the same time?
      - Quarrelsome 16y ago
        It sounds like you're running with the assumption that there is a consistency in the dosage. I admit there would be for cigarettes. Despite different brands offering different amounts of tar and nicotine most people stick to a particular brand and smoke a particular amount in a day. However for ecstasy the dosages may well fluctuate wildly. Obviously to start with it isn't habitual so frequency isn't usually consistent. Even with a consistent "every Saturday night" (probably the most common dosage) due to the struggles of supply and demand in a black market you will take different quantities of different stock. I.E. One day you'll have rubbish "Roles Royces" and you'll have 6 of em, another you'll have some nice "Mitsis" and just take 3 and on other days you'll have an insane "Red Tulip" that was incredibly more potent than all the others so you only needed one. Of course the name never really means anything as you can have both good "mitsis" and bad "mitsis". Then there is also the case where the pill is actually cut with something else (pretty common I believe), perhaps a bit of ketamine or god knows. The issue perhaps is that an "ecstasy" in its black market form may be very different from its medical definition making it very difficult to compare like for like.

by swombat 16y ago

Groxx 16y ago

I actually did a research paper on rave culture a few years back. Pretty eye-opening; a fairly significant amount more people had died from drinking too much Red Bull than from taking ecstasy, even including where it was laced with cyanide / something equally bad to consume. It's literally one of the safest street drugs around. ---- Some fun numbers from http://thedea.org/technicalFAQ.html http://thedea.org/technicalFAQ.html: >"MDMA-present" drug deaths occur at a rate of aproximately 2-3 users per 100,000 users/year. ... cigarettes ... on the order of 400 deaths per 100,000 users/year With only "a handful" US-annually where it was the only drug, out of less than a hundred. Think alcohol can claim that?

NickPollard 16y ago
That's some pretty interesting research, although that's looking at per user rather than per-use - I'm guessing that there's a difference if you adjusted for number of hits (I'm assuming the average smoker smokes a lot more cigarettes than the average ecstasy user pops pills).
- Quarrelsome 16y ago
  It can really vary depending on how far you want to go with it. At the peak of usage in my youth we were all taking in excess of 30 a week, some even 30 in one evening (dropping 4 each time)! Interesting things start to happen when you get that deep, such "mid-week blues". Where you just get really upset half-way through the week (the other side of the weekends), teary and somewhat irrational. Typically this is around the point where people give it up due to the side-effects. We knew we were taking too many when we uttered the words: "its tuesday, so we'll only have 6". Thankfully it isn't at all addictive so it's not hard to stop. :)
- Groxx 16y ago
  There's validity to that... but if so, what does this imply about the two drugs? Apparently that ecstasy users are far less likely to increase their use to unsafe levels - ie, less addictive. And if not, it's even safer than it appears to be, because I'd imagine most people make the same assumption. Either way, it falls solidly on the side favoring ecstasy over tobacco. How would you define a "hit" anyway? Doses don't really compare, and even if it's 1-cigarette/1-pill, it's all societal how much is in each "dose"...
  - NickPollard 16y ago
    It does seem like a pretty tough problem to define, and the issue of addictiveness really clouds the issue. If you try to say, what is more dangerous - taking one ecstasy tab or one cigarette - even if the ecstasy is more dangerous in the short term, the possibility of addiction could make the cigarette much worse. I guess maybe you could work the other way - start with say, 1 cigarette, and then try to calculate what amount of ecstasy is an equivalent dose? However I would guess that it fluctuates largely on how much you have at the same time?
    - Quarrelsome 16y ago
      It sounds like you're running with the assumption that there is a consistency in the dosage. I admit there would be for cigarettes. Despite different brands offering different amounts of tar and nicotine most people stick to a particular brand and smoke a particular amount in a day. However for ecstasy the dosages may well fluctuate wildly. Obviously to start with it isn't habitual so frequency isn't usually consistent. Even with a consistent "every Saturday night" (probably the most common dosage) due to the struggles of supply and demand in a black market you will take different quantities of different stock. I.E. One day you'll have rubbish "Roles Royces" and you'll have 6 of em, another you'll have some nice "Mitsis" and just take 3 and on other days you'll have an insane "Red Tulip" that was incredibly more potent than all the others so you only needed one. Of course the name never really means anything as you can have both good "mitsis" and bad "mitsis". Then there is also the case where the pill is actually cut with something else (pretty common I believe), perhaps a bit of ketamine or god knows. The issue perhaps is that an "ecstasy" in its black market form may be very different from its medical definition making it very difficult to compare like for like.