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There's a much better way to hold educators to account - have other educators sit in on classes. But this is often very strongly resisted, apparently it's 'unpr

by wisty 8y ago

There's a much better way to hold educators to account - have other educators sit in on classes. But this is often very strongly resisted, apparently it's 'unprofessional'.

AndyMcConachie 8y ago
I'd be curious to hear who thinks this is unprofessional. Not any educators I know.
- kiriakasis 8y ago
  well, forcing another teacher in the class with the intent of supervision of the teacher is obviously a terrible idea. Having two teacher in every class collaborating during the lecture or as an aide to supervise the students can be a obviously good idea. Generally speaking, in my opinion, teaching is a very complex and personal interaction and micromanaging only makes it worse.
- jcagalawan 8y ago
  While I can't find any specific sources in the field of education, I was taught in engineering school that engineers reviewing the work of another engineer, unless their job specifically required them to review work, was against the code of ethics in Ontario. It looks like this is true as well in the USA which has this tidbit in their code of ethics.[1] "a. An Engineer in private practice will not review the work of another engineer for the same client, except with the knowledge of such engineer, or unless the connection of such engineer with the work has been terminated." [1]http://ethics.iit.edu/ecodes/node/4099 http://ethics.iit.edu/ecodes/node/4099
  - nickloewen 8y ago
    This is different though, because of the “except with knowledge of said engineer” line. This code is trying to prevent clients from, for example, getting a “second opinion” on a project if they are unhappy that the first engineer deemed it unsafe. This isn’t really an issue in teaching. I think that it would be impolite to just drop in on a colleagues class unannounced, especially if it is a bit lecture where you might go unnoticed, but I don’t see why a prearranged visit would be unprofessional per se. (Perhaps because it would cause students to doubt the quality of their instructor?) FWIW my understanding is that at my university the response to poor evals is a visit from a colleague, to assess whether the teacher really is weak or if the material is just difficult. Depending on that, the instructor may get additional coaching in teaching technique. This seems like a sensible approach to me.
- wisty 8y ago
  I think I read it in reference to university lecturers.
sshine 8y ago
As a TA I often attended lectures just to be able to refer to what students were just told. Often this information had not been processed or remembered very well by students. I always thought that lecturers, if there were multiple for a single course, would not attend one another's lectures under the pretense that they were busy, but with the actual reason that they didn't want to hold one another accountable for inefficient teaching methods. "I don't care what you do, you won't care what I do, the typos from last year's slides repeat."
icelancer 8y ago
This works well but is subject to the same initial issues that pair programming has - it feels weird, you feel watched, and it is just uncomfortable. Eventually you get used to it and some even prefer it - I know I really get a lot out of pair programming with someone close to me in skill but with a much different background - but getting over that first hump is tough.
nicoburns 8y ago
I'm pretty sure this is standard practice in the UK. Not every lesson, but regularly.

by wisty 8y ago

There's a much better way to hold educators to account - have other educators sit in on classes. But this is often very strongly resisted, apparently it's 'unprofessional'.

AndyMcConachie 8y ago

I'd be curious to hear who thinks this is unprofessional. Not any educators I know.

kiriakasis 8y ago
well, forcing another teacher in the class with the intent of supervision of the teacher is obviously a terrible idea. Having two teacher in every class collaborating during the lecture or as an aide to supervise the students can be a obviously good idea. Generally speaking, in my opinion, teaching is a very complex and personal interaction and micromanaging only makes it worse.
jcagalawan 8y ago
While I can't find any specific sources in the field of education, I was taught in engineering school that engineers reviewing the work of another engineer, unless their job specifically required them to review work, was against the code of ethics in Ontario. It looks like this is true as well in the USA which has this tidbit in their code of ethics.[1] "a. An Engineer in private practice will not review the work of another engineer for the same client, except with the knowledge of such engineer, or unless the connection of such engineer with the work has been terminated." [1]http://ethics.iit.edu/ecodes/node/4099 http://ethics.iit.edu/ecodes/node/4099
- nickloewen 8y ago
  This is different though, because of the “except with knowledge of said engineer” line. This code is trying to prevent clients from, for example, getting a “second opinion” on a project if they are unhappy that the first engineer deemed it unsafe. This isn’t really an issue in teaching. I think that it would be impolite to just drop in on a colleagues class unannounced, especially if it is a bit lecture where you might go unnoticed, but I don’t see why a prearranged visit would be unprofessional per se. (Perhaps because it would cause students to doubt the quality of their instructor?) FWIW my understanding is that at my university the response to poor evals is a visit from a colleague, to assess whether the teacher really is weak or if the material is just difficult. Depending on that, the instructor may get additional coaching in teaching technique. This seems like a sensible approach to me.
wisty 8y ago
I think I read it in reference to university lecturers.

sshine 8y ago

As a TA I often attended lectures just to be able to refer to what students were just told. Often this information had not been processed or remembered very well by students. I always thought that lecturers, if there were multiple for a single course, would not attend one another's lectures under the pretense that they were busy, but with the actual reason that they didn't want to hold one another accountable for inefficient teaching methods. "I don't care what you do, you won't care what I do, the typos from last year's slides repeat."

icelancer 8y ago

This works well but is subject to the same initial issues that pair programming has - it feels weird, you feel watched, and it is just uncomfortable. Eventually you get used to it and some even prefer it - I know I really get a lot out of pair programming with someone close to me in skill but with a much different background - but getting over that first hump is tough.

nicoburns 8y ago

I'm pretty sure this is standard practice in the UK. Not every lesson, but regularly.