4 ms·

Like with healthcare recipients, students don't necessarily know what they need and therefore aren't able to accurately rate providers.

Y7ZCQtNo39 8y ago
In some aspects yes, in others no. I accidentally cut myself a little too deep while doing dishes a couple years ago (opaque, soapy water and sharp surfaces don't mix well). I couldn't get the bleeding to stop (without constant pressure held for about an hour), so I went to urgent care. I knew that I needed stitches or that "glue" they use to seal wounds. I didn't care which solution the Doctor picked, but I knew I needed something. Students have some sense of what a generally good instructional experience looks like. It's better to collect this feedback, and have people that are experts in instruction examine the reviews, synthesize with their own knowledge of what makes instruction great, and use that information to improve. But saying we should totally close out students since "they don't know what they need" removes a fruitful data source in determining where professors can improve.
- shanghaiaway 8y ago
  If the doctor chose one of the sealing methods over the other which you preferred, you gave a lower score of because of it, it still is not an indication of the quality of the treatment you received. You wouldn't have been qualified to determine the best method.
  - Y7ZCQtNo39 8y ago
    When you review feedback collected (in any situation analogous to what you mention), you take that into account. What if the feedback also said the doctor wasn't personable? Maybe the doc could be a bit warmer with his patients... and a patient would be absolutely qualified in determining whether or not that bedside manner is present.
- cortesoft 8y ago
  Sadly, the only thing many students feel they need from a university education is a degree. This is not surprising, given our society's constant refrain of telling everyone, "You need a college degree to get a good job". Many students are there not because they want to learn but because they want to get that piece of paper that is the ticket to a successful career. A teacher forcing them to learn, to spend time and effort studying and working, is not seen as a positive if your goal is simply to get a degree. The ideal teacher for them is someone who just give you an A no matter what. That would be the quickest and easiest way to guarantee achieving that goal. This is the true issue here - the disconnect between what many students want from a university education and what that education is actually supposed to be.
  - repsilat 8y ago
    Studies show that the pay differential for "all but completed degree" and "completed degree" are stark. Researchers have said that this indicates that a large fraction of the "value" of college is just signalling (intelligence, aptitude, diligence), not education. If that's the case, many of the students in your post are right -- just giving them the degree could save them (and the school) a lot of time and money. Maybe your art history class is a cost-effective way to get a world class education in late Italian Romantic oil paintings, but as a way of proving you're smart enough to work in a law firm (or even "broaden your horizons and become a better citizen through rounded education") I can't imagine it's terribly efficient.
    - michaelt 8y ago
      Well, there's a collective action problem there. It's in every student's individual interests for their school's standards for admission and grading to be low, so they can obtain the credential easily. But it's in the student body's _collective_ interests for the school's standards to be high, so the credential retains and improves its signalling value. There's a reason a C- student at Harvard doesn't transfer to a deprived community college where they'd be at the top of every class :)
      - 8y ago
Bjartr 8y ago
Like all end user feedback, what they claim they need isn't always going to be what they actually need, but the pain points they reveal can inform where improvement is necessary and valuable.
- shanghaiaway 8y ago
  Sure, but that feedback which is directed at someone who is also a private person does not need to be made public.
  - Y7ZCQtNo39 8y ago
    Yeah, that's another angle I didn't touch on. You don't have to publish all the feedback data. You can choose just to goes with the quantitative results. Comments are tricky since they're both qualitative and might need to be scrubbed for anything personally-identifying.
briandear 8y ago
When they are paying the bills, they have a right to providing feedback on the product they are receiving. Students go into deep debt to pay schools, they are the customers and their feedback ought to matter.

Y7ZCQtNo39 8y ago

In some aspects yes, in others no. I accidentally cut myself a little too deep while doing dishes a couple years ago (opaque, soapy water and sharp surfaces don't mix well). I couldn't get the bleeding to stop (without constant pressure held for about an hour), so I went to urgent care. I knew that I needed stitches or that "glue" they use to seal wounds. I didn't care which solution the Doctor picked, but I knew I needed something. Students have some sense of what a generally good instructional experience looks like. It's better to collect this feedback, and have people that are experts in instruction examine the reviews, synthesize with their own knowledge of what makes instruction great, and use that information to improve. But saying we should totally close out students since "they don't know what they need" removes a fruitful data source in determining where professors can improve.

shanghaiaway 8y ago
If the doctor chose one of the sealing methods over the other which you preferred, you gave a lower score of because of it, it still is not an indication of the quality of the treatment you received. You wouldn't have been qualified to determine the best method.
- Y7ZCQtNo39 8y ago
  When you review feedback collected (in any situation analogous to what you mention), you take that into account. What if the feedback also said the doctor wasn't personable? Maybe the doc could be a bit warmer with his patients... and a patient would be absolutely qualified in determining whether or not that bedside manner is present.
cortesoft 8y ago
Sadly, the only thing many students feel they need from a university education is a degree. This is not surprising, given our society's constant refrain of telling everyone, "You need a college degree to get a good job". Many students are there not because they want to learn but because they want to get that piece of paper that is the ticket to a successful career. A teacher forcing them to learn, to spend time and effort studying and working, is not seen as a positive if your goal is simply to get a degree. The ideal teacher for them is someone who just give you an A no matter what. That would be the quickest and easiest way to guarantee achieving that goal. This is the true issue here - the disconnect between what many students want from a university education and what that education is actually supposed to be.
- repsilat 8y ago
  Studies show that the pay differential for "all but completed degree" and "completed degree" are stark. Researchers have said that this indicates that a large fraction of the "value" of college is just signalling (intelligence, aptitude, diligence), not education. If that's the case, many of the students in your post are right -- just giving them the degree could save them (and the school) a lot of time and money. Maybe your art history class is a cost-effective way to get a world class education in late Italian Romantic oil paintings, but as a way of proving you're smart enough to work in a law firm (or even "broaden your horizons and become a better citizen through rounded education") I can't imagine it's terribly efficient.
  - michaelt 8y ago
    Well, there's a collective action problem there. It's in every student's individual interests for their school's standards for admission and grading to be low, so they can obtain the credential easily. But it's in the student body's _collective_ interests for the school's standards to be high, so the credential retains and improves its signalling value. There's a reason a C- student at Harvard doesn't transfer to a deprived community college where they'd be at the top of every class :)
    - 8y ago

Bjartr 8y ago

Like all end user feedback, what they claim they need isn't always going to be what they actually need, but the pain points they reveal can inform where improvement is necessary and valuable.

shanghaiaway 8y ago
Sure, but that feedback which is directed at someone who is also a private person does not need to be made public.
- Y7ZCQtNo39 8y ago
  Yeah, that's another angle I didn't touch on. You don't have to publish all the feedback data. You can choose just to goes with the quantitative results. Comments are tricky since they're both qualitative and might need to be scrubbed for anything personally-identifying.

briandear 8y ago

When they are paying the bills, they have a right to providing feedback on the product they are receiving. Students go into deep debt to pay schools, they are the customers and their feedback ought to matter.