8 ms·

Japan is not a very good proxy due to their strict immigration policies and preference to be an "ethnically homogeneous nation." As you mentioned, other countri

Japan is not a very good proxy due to their strict immigration policies and preference to be an "ethnically homogeneous nation." As you mentioned, other countries can just replenish their head count through relaxed immigration. I'd wager, for example, that the US will remain highly multicultural with looser immigration long term since it's baked into its identity[0], despite some recent policy changes. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting_pot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting_pot

smsm42 8y ago
In 2017, over a million people[1] received legal permanent resident status. In 2017 it was slightly less than in 2016, but on roughly the same level as the previous decade. So recent policy changes don't seem to have much effect in that regard. [1] https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2017 https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2017
- bduerst 8y ago
  Over 500,000 of those are familial green cards (spouses and children), meaning they likely would have been issued regardless of the changes in policy and don't really reflect a multicultural dimension for the country. Other permanent resident status issuances take up to 15 years to achieve, meaning you won't see the effects of recent policy changes in that metric until the years to come. A better metric is visa issuances, since those are the first step for many to becoming a legal permanent resident. Those have peaked in 2015 and have declined back to 2013 levels now: https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2017AnnualReport/FY17AnnualReport-TableXVIA.pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Annual...
  - smsm42 8y ago
    That depends a lot what exactly visas are those. There are dual intent visas, which allow change to permanent immigrant status, and ones that explicitly prohibit such change. Most visas at your link are B type visas, which would be denied if immigration officer even suspects you have intent to become a permanent resident.
lenocinor 8y ago
Not a good proxy for now, sure. But if every country eventually does this, we'll all eventually be in the same boat.
gkanai 8y ago
> Japan is not a very good proxy due to their strict immigration policies PM Abe is actively trying to change the immigration policies as of Nov. 2018.
tathougies 8y ago
Ah right... just get more immigrants from the immigrant factory. I know this is difficult for some to understand but brown, black and asian people are made via sex and birth (Shocker of shocks, I know). What you're arguing for is for the birth rate of the undeveloped world to continuously grow at a never-ending rate in order to compensate for the utter laziness of the developed world. I hate to break it to you but that'll simply lead to a flip in which countries are classified as developed.
aikinai 8y ago
Not just immigration, Japan also doesn’t rely on real estate speculation to drive middle class wealth. Houses and buildings have always depreciated and even land stopped appreciating after their bubble popped nearly 30 years ago. No one buys real estate to build wealth, but simply to live there. So they’ve got a huge head start in contraction economics.
laurieg 8y ago
"Japan has strict immigration policies" is often repeated, but I don't think this is tells the whole story. Some of the policies are very permissive: * If you graduated university and have a 'skilled' job in Japan, you are likely to get a visa. There is no cap on the number of these. There is no language requirement. * If you live in Japan for over 5 years continuously you can apply for citizenship, though you must renounce any other citizenships. * If you live in Japan for over 10 years you are eligible for permanent residency. * If you are married to a Japanese national you can do any kind of work and get permanent residency in 3 years. * If you have enough points on the highly skilled professional visa you can get permanent residency in 1 year. This is retroactive as long as you lived in Japan during that time, you don't even need to have had the highly skilled professional visa. So, is it really an issue of policy? I think the causes may lie elsewhere.
- swombat 8y ago
  Based on my experience visiting Japan and talking to both expats and expat-friendly locals there, I think the issue is more cultural than political. If you live in Japan but don't look Japanese you never really feel welcomed as a Japanese. Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or origins...
  - lovemenot 8y ago
    This feeling they experienced is of course subjective. Take it from a 20-year non-native Tokyo resident - it doesn't have to feel unwelcoming. Depends on the individual I guess. Admittedly, I've never lived in any of the out-of-the way places where most of these properties are located.
  - jaredklewis 8y ago
    > Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or origins.. Those things are also socially unacceptable in Japan. My experience is that the often discussed "micro-agressions" against foreigners happen about as often in Japan as they do in my own country (US, grew up in Texas). Of course, the only complaints that foreigners in Japan can make is about trivia. The US is so fucked up that we cannot seem to stop shooting unarmed black men, we're separating mothers from babies, and as of last week now tear gassing families at the border. So not sure if you are American, but many of the foreigners in Japan that complain of discrimination are, and I just want to say that I think it takes a lot of balls for an American in Japan to be like "hey, you guys can do a lot better with the discrimination thing." As horrifying as someone being impressed with your ability to use chopsticks is, it's not quite so horrifying as being literally shot for walking on the street. Many people in the US freeze up if a black person so much as walks by them on the street. And on the other side of the pacific? Ask a random stranger for directions; 9 times out of 10 they will stop whatever they are doing and walk with you to wherever you are going.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
It works well in America and Canada, but ethnic tensions are probably one of the root causes of tension in every other American nation, even Mexico. Everywhere south of the US has kind of a 'soft race war' going on between descendants of White colonialists, ex-black slaves, the indigenous population, the mixed crew, and other ethnic groups. It's a kind of overwhelming systematic ... 'racism' is not the best word ... more like 'systematic racial friction'. It's apparent everywhere, even by just driving through regions you can see it.

smsm42 8y ago

In 2017, over a million people[1] received legal permanent resident status. In 2017 it was slightly less than in 2016, but on roughly the same level as the previous decade. So recent policy changes don't seem to have much effect in that regard. [1] https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2017 https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2017

bduerst 8y ago
Over 500,000 of those are familial green cards (spouses and children), meaning they likely would have been issued regardless of the changes in policy and don't really reflect a multicultural dimension for the country. Other permanent resident status issuances take up to 15 years to achieve, meaning you won't see the effects of recent policy changes in that metric until the years to come. A better metric is visa issuances, since those are the first step for many to becoming a legal permanent resident. Those have peaked in 2015 and have declined back to 2013 levels now: https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/AnnualReports/FY2017AnnualReport/FY17AnnualReport-TableXVIA.pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Annual...
- smsm42 8y ago
  That depends a lot what exactly visas are those. There are dual intent visas, which allow change to permanent immigrant status, and ones that explicitly prohibit such change. Most visas at your link are B type visas, which would be denied if immigration officer even suspects you have intent to become a permanent resident.

lenocinor 8y ago

Not a good proxy for now, sure. But if every country eventually does this, we'll all eventually be in the same boat.

gkanai 8y ago

> Japan is not a very good proxy due to their strict immigration policies PM Abe is actively trying to change the immigration policies as of Nov. 2018.

tathougies 8y ago

Ah right... just get more immigrants from the immigrant factory. I know this is difficult for some to understand but brown, black and asian people are made via sex and birth (Shocker of shocks, I know). What you're arguing for is for the birth rate of the undeveloped world to continuously grow at a never-ending rate in order to compensate for the utter laziness of the developed world. I hate to break it to you but that'll simply lead to a flip in which countries are classified as developed.

aikinai 8y ago

Not just immigration, Japan also doesn’t rely on real estate speculation to drive middle class wealth. Houses and buildings have always depreciated and even land stopped appreciating after their bubble popped nearly 30 years ago. No one buys real estate to build wealth, but simply to live there. So they’ve got a huge head start in contraction economics.

laurieg 8y ago

"Japan has strict immigration policies" is often repeated, but I don't think this is tells the whole story. Some of the policies are very permissive: * If you graduated university and have a 'skilled' job in Japan, you are likely to get a visa. There is no cap on the number of these. There is no language requirement. * If you live in Japan for over 5 years continuously you can apply for citizenship, though you must renounce any other citizenships. * If you live in Japan for over 10 years you are eligible for permanent residency. * If you are married to a Japanese national you can do any kind of work and get permanent residency in 3 years. * If you have enough points on the highly skilled professional visa you can get permanent residency in 1 year. This is retroactive as long as you lived in Japan during that time, you don't even need to have had the highly skilled professional visa. So, is it really an issue of policy? I think the causes may lie elsewhere.

swombat 8y ago
Based on my experience visiting Japan and talking to both expats and expat-friendly locals there, I think the issue is more cultural than political. If you live in Japan but don't look Japanese you never really feel welcomed as a Japanese. Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or origins...
- lovemenot 8y ago
  This feeling they experienced is of course subjective. Take it from a 20-year non-native Tokyo resident - it doesn't have to feel unwelcoming. Depends on the individual I guess. Admittedly, I've never lived in any of the out-of-the way places where most of these properties are located.
- jaredklewis 8y ago
  > Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or origins.. Those things are also socially unacceptable in Japan. My experience is that the often discussed "micro-agressions" against foreigners happen about as often in Japan as they do in my own country (US, grew up in Texas). Of course, the only complaints that foreigners in Japan can make is about trivia. The US is so fucked up that we cannot seem to stop shooting unarmed black men, we're separating mothers from babies, and as of last week now tear gassing families at the border. So not sure if you are American, but many of the foreigners in Japan that complain of discrimination are, and I just want to say that I think it takes a lot of balls for an American in Japan to be like "hey, you guys can do a lot better with the discrimination thing." As horrifying as someone being impressed with your ability to use chopsticks is, it's not quite so horrifying as being literally shot for walking on the street. Many people in the US freeze up if a black person so much as walks by them on the street. And on the other side of the pacific? Ask a random stranger for directions; 9 times out of 10 they will stop whatever they are doing and walk with you to wherever you are going.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

It works well in America and Canada, but ethnic tensions are probably one of the root causes of tension in every other American nation, even Mexico. Everywhere south of the US has kind of a 'soft race war' going on between descendants of White colonialists, ex-black slaves, the indigenous population, the mixed crew, and other ethnic groups. It's a kind of overwhelming systematic ... 'racism' is not the best word ... more like 'systematic racial friction'. It's apparent everywhere, even by just driving through regions you can see it.