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A good and important counter-measure, but not the only one. People also need better tools for analyzing and making sense of large quantities of information, es

A good and important counter-measure, but not the only one. People also need better tools for analyzing and making sense of large quantities of information, especially as it evolves over time. Right now, all we have are search engines and excel spreadsheets, and it's clearly not enough. It's amazing how prophetic Neil Postman's criticism of computers turned out to be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqxgCoHv_aE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqxgCoHv_aE Essentially, he noted how computers gave people tools to produce and consume more information, but not the tools to discern, filter and analyze it more effectively. It's a profound and very important observation. His Six Questions are also more relevant than ever.

lisper 8y ago
Wow, that is one of the best long talks I've ever seen. Do you know if there's a transcript out there somewhere?
- excalibur 8y ago
  Not finding one. Any volunteers for Rule 35?
  - lisper 8y ago
    I would start here: https://aws.amazon.com/transcribe/ https://aws.amazon.com/transcribe/
- jxramos 8y ago
  YouTube has a transcript feature for newer videos. I wonder if there’s a way to nudge them to process some old content.
- mycall 8y ago
  http://www.paulos.net/teaching/hcc/papers/informing_ourselves_to_death--postman.txt http://www.paulos.net/teaching/hcc/papers/informing_ourselve...
  - lisper 8y ago
    Thank you!
dv_dt 8y ago
If only our newspaper organizations took that on more often. I would love to read a media source that just took issues in the spotlight, and just added contextual data, scale comparisons, and analysis to the hot topics.
- r00fus 8y ago
  For-profit ventures that are part of a media conglomerate or own entire media markets will never do that. Increasing public funding for media and reinstating the media concentration prevention rules may result in actual investigative journalism as opposed to "reportage"
starbeast 8y ago
>People also need better tools for analyzing and making sense of large quantities of information, especially as it evolves over time. Right now, all we have are search engines and excel spreadsheets, and it's clearly not enough. Interfaces don't seem to get designed, they just accumulate concretions.
orbital-decay 8y ago
> Essentially, he noted how computers gave people tools to produce and consume more information, but not the tools to discern, filter and analyze it more effectively. It's a profound and very important observation. Is it, really? There's a myriad of analytic tools for every imaginable domain, and even more domain-independent ones. You just need to be skilled enough to use them properly; not because the tools are bad, but because the analysis itself is hard, and even a seemingly simple problem usually needs abstract thinking and domain knowledge.
- bmurphy1976 8y ago
  The information is coming at you regardless of your expertise. Those who don't have the expertise are at a distinct disadvantage to those who do. The tools may be good in the technical sense, but in the do they help normal people out sense they often are not. I would call that a bad situation, one we need to find creative and effective ways to remedy.
  - orbital-decay 8y ago
    That's just... a fundamental limitation? I don't think there's a way for an unskilled ("normal") person to dissect and analyze the information outside of their understanding in a meaningful way, no matter how creative you get.
    - simonh 8y ago
      I think that's the point. It's not anybody's fault and it's not that anyone is doing anything wrong, it's just a problem we need to take into account and try to mitigate.
    - gambler 8y ago
      >That's just... a fundamental limitation? I don't think there's a way for an unskilled ("normal") person to dissect and analyze the information outside of their understanding in a meaningful way, no matter how creative you get. This is discussed in depth in Augmenting Human Intellect: http://dougengelbart.org/content/view/138/000/ http://dougengelbart.org/content/view/138/000/

lisper 8y ago

Wow, that is one of the best long talks I've ever seen. Do you know if there's a transcript out there somewhere?

excalibur 8y ago
Not finding one. Any volunteers for Rule 35?
- lisper 8y ago
  I would start here: https://aws.amazon.com/transcribe/ https://aws.amazon.com/transcribe/
jxramos 8y ago
YouTube has a transcript feature for newer videos. I wonder if there’s a way to nudge them to process some old content.
mycall 8y ago
http://www.paulos.net/teaching/hcc/papers/informing_ourselves_to_death--postman.txt http://www.paulos.net/teaching/hcc/papers/informing_ourselve...
- lisper 8y ago
  Thank you!

dv_dt 8y ago

If only our newspaper organizations took that on more often. I would love to read a media source that just took issues in the spotlight, and just added contextual data, scale comparisons, and analysis to the hot topics.

r00fus 8y ago
For-profit ventures that are part of a media conglomerate or own entire media markets will never do that. Increasing public funding for media and reinstating the media concentration prevention rules may result in actual investigative journalism as opposed to "reportage"

starbeast 8y ago

>People also need better tools for analyzing and making sense of large quantities of information, especially as it evolves over time. Right now, all we have are search engines and excel spreadsheets, and it's clearly not enough. Interfaces don't seem to get designed, they just accumulate concretions.

orbital-decay 8y ago

> Essentially, he noted how computers gave people tools to produce and consume more information, but not the tools to discern, filter and analyze it more effectively. It's a profound and very important observation. Is it, really? There's a myriad of analytic tools for every imaginable domain, and even more domain-independent ones. You just need to be skilled enough to use them properly; not because the tools are bad, but because the analysis itself is hard, and even a seemingly simple problem usually needs abstract thinking and domain knowledge.

bmurphy1976 8y ago
The information is coming at you regardless of your expertise. Those who don't have the expertise are at a distinct disadvantage to those who do. The tools may be good in the technical sense, but in the do they help normal people out sense they often are not. I would call that a bad situation, one we need to find creative and effective ways to remedy.
- orbital-decay 8y ago
  That's just... a fundamental limitation? I don't think there's a way for an unskilled ("normal") person to dissect and analyze the information outside of their understanding in a meaningful way, no matter how creative you get.
  - simonh 8y ago
    I think that's the point. It's not anybody's fault and it's not that anyone is doing anything wrong, it's just a problem we need to take into account and try to mitigate.
  - gambler 8y ago
    >That's just... a fundamental limitation? I don't think there's a way for an unskilled ("normal") person to dissect and analyze the information outside of their understanding in a meaningful way, no matter how creative you get. This is discussed in depth in Augmenting Human Intellect: http://dougengelbart.org/content/view/138/000/ http://dougengelbart.org/content/view/138/000/