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Slightly off topic, but I was in rural Portugal recently, and my impression was that about one in three buildings was in some state of ruin, from otherwise deli

by 13of40 8y ago

Slightly off topic, but I was in rural Portugal recently, and my impression was that about one in three buildings was in some state of ruin, from otherwise delightful little cottages with holes in their roofs and empty windows, to remains of ancient walls just clinging together by the sheer will of their graffiti. (This isn't to pick on Portugal either - I've seen it in several different parts of Europe.) For the less damaged ones, I don't really understand why it's not economical to throw a new roof on them to make them habitable. In the US, when a house rots it rots, because it's going to be made out of wood and gypsum and insulation that can't come back from exposure to the elements, but the buildings I was seeing were all stone. Is there some special failure mode that's harder to see in them, like black mold in the cracks or structural instability that makes them unrepairable, or is just lack of demand? A good example is this building: https://goo.gl/maps/7uzuvfrUQHD2 https://goo.gl/maps/7uzuvfrUQHD2 This is right next to the national palace in one of the wealthiest regions of the country, and instead of fixing it up and putting it on Air BnB as "The Cottage by the Palace" you can see from google that it's abandoned and the roof has slowly been caving in for the last ten years.

kaybe 8y ago
It might be more expensive to fix than a new house due to location, lots of specialized manual labour needed (you cannot use eg standard window because the holes in the walls are non-standard etc) and regulation (concerning building codes, appearances (especially in such a prime old-town location) and, if you're unlucky, monument protection), and probably some issues with moisture that you'll have to address, etc etc., and everything but the walls need to be redone. Plus then you sometimes have issues due to ownership. It might belong to somebody in an old-people's-home who basically forgot about it. It might be part of an inheritance and the heirs are in conflict about what to do for many years. It might belong to somebody in another city, who doesn't want the trouble of selling and not the expense of fixing it and renting it out. The owner might also have an emotional attachment, and lacking the money to fix it. It might have been in the family for generations... etc etc. It's surprising how many places are empty because the owners can't be bothered. It seems to me one of the better ways to find a way to live in German cities right now is to find an empty one, locate the owner and badger them into letting you rent it. Then again, there is a political culture of squatting empty places as well, especially if they are derelict... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausbesetzung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausbesetzung is a little better)
TheGRS 8y ago
The larger issue of rural dilapidated housing seems way less of a structural or engineering issue and just more of a desirability issue. Not for the house itself, but for whatever the area is. If you have enough people in that area that want to stay there and more people moving in then the residents will either figure out a way to make the house work, fix it up, or replace it.
icebraining 8y ago
My guess is that the house is inhabited, the owners are probably poor, but have lived there for probably many decades, and have no intention of leaving. Their heirs won't have enough money to fix it up either, unless they emigrated to Luxembourg or something, and may very well keep living there, since they can't afford anything closer to Lisbon. The problem with Portugal is quite often just a simple one: lack of capital. By the way, the lower walls may be stone, but the rest is often just brick with terrible cement slapped on top. Water infiltration issues are rampant, especially in a humid area like Sintra. Mold is certainly an issue, and the solution often requires removing all the cement and reapplying it, which ain't that cheap.

by 13of40 8y ago

kaybe 8y ago

It might be more expensive to fix than a new house due to location, lots of specialized manual labour needed (you cannot use eg standard window because the holes in the walls are non-standard etc) and regulation (concerning building codes, appearances (especially in such a prime old-town location) and, if you're unlucky, monument protection), and probably some issues with moisture that you'll have to address, etc etc., and everything but the walls need to be redone. Plus then you sometimes have issues due to ownership. It might belong to somebody in an old-people's-home who basically forgot about it. It might be part of an inheritance and the heirs are in conflict about what to do for many years. It might belong to somebody in another city, who doesn't want the trouble of selling and not the expense of fixing it and renting it out. The owner might also have an emotional attachment, and lacking the money to fix it. It might have been in the family for generations... etc etc. It's surprising how many places are empty because the owners can't be bothered. It seems to me one of the better ways to find a way to live in German cities right now is to find an empty one, locate the owner and badger them into letting you rent it. Then again, there is a political culture of squatting empty places as well, especially if they are derelict... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausbesetzung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausbesetzung is a little better)

TheGRS 8y ago

The larger issue of rural dilapidated housing seems way less of a structural or engineering issue and just more of a desirability issue. Not for the house itself, but for whatever the area is. If you have enough people in that area that want to stay there and more people moving in then the residents will either figure out a way to make the house work, fix it up, or replace it.

icebraining 8y ago

My guess is that the house is inhabited, the owners are probably poor, but have lived there for probably many decades, and have no intention of leaving. Their heirs won't have enough money to fix it up either, unless they emigrated to Luxembourg or something, and may very well keep living there, since they can't afford anything closer to Lisbon. The problem with Portugal is quite often just a simple one: lack of capital. By the way, the lower walls may be stone, but the rest is often just brick with terrible cement slapped on top. Water infiltration issues are rampant, especially in a humid area like Sintra. Mold is certainly an issue, and the solution often requires removing all the cement and reapplying it, which ain't that cheap.