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>On an unrelated note, when people call Apple a monopoly because the only way that you can reach IOS users is via the App Store, I always say how is that differ

>On an unrelated note, when people call Apple a monopoly because the only way that you can reach IOS users is via the App Store, I always say how is that different than the console makers[1] It's not really different at all as business models go. In both cases, the value addition of the "shopkeeper" (i.e. Apple or the console maker) is to certify that the product meets certain quality and security standards. Functionally, they're staking their reputation on the apps you buy through them not bricking your device, exfiltrating your data, exposing you to content that is different from what was advertised, or helping you commit crimes. In the app store's case they're also doing some payment processing, customer service, subscription management, etc. Where it becomes different is a matter of scale and use value. Game consoles are basically toys, so pernicious economic effects on the Playstation store doesn't impact peoples' ability to participate in society the same way those dynamics would on your phone. >How are any of the other platform providers any different? This is just the first lawsuit because it has the most direct parallels to existing caselaw. As this gets fleshed out people are going to come for the other digital services too. Honestly we need to update our anti-trust laws to account for this sort of thing. Many of these functions should be regulated like public utilities rather than as services they way they are now. Vendor lock-in and prohibitive switching costs create lots of room for fleecing customers and consumer protection laws should take that into account.

scarface74 8y ago
Now you want to regulate private companies like public utilities? The switching cost in the US of changing phones is going to your provider and trading your phone in every six months to a year. When did not having an app stop people from participating in society? The average iPhone cost well over $600. People buying iPhones aren’t exactly underprivileged.
- naravara 8y ago
  >Now you want to regulate private companies like public utilities? Most public utilities are private companies. That's why it's called regulation and not nationalization. >The switching cost in the US of changing phones is going to your provider and trading your phone in every six months to a year. No, most of the switching costs are the costs (monetary and in unpaid labor of learning new tools and workflows) to users of switching from one platform to another. This empowers the gatekeepers to extract higher rents which, by definition, add no value to society. >When did not having an app stop people from participating in society? When people start building transportation access into them or make it contingent to being able to do some jobs it becomes a necessary tool for participating in society. The average car costs over $30k, that doesn't mean we would have put up with things like proprietary gas stations either.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Most public utilities are private companies. That's why it's called regulation and not nationalization. Public utilities are regulated as such because of the high capital costs to deliver to everyone and the need to gain the right of way to serve people. Last time I checked, Apple didn’t need to dig up roads to connect users. Most people think of utilities as being a public necessity. The right for Pornhub to put an app on the store. Not so much. When people start building transportation access into them or make it contingent to being able to do some jobs it becomes a necessary tool for participating in society. The average car costs over $30k, that doesn't mean we would have put up with things like proprietary gas stations either. So now an iPhone is a “necessary tool”?
    - naravara 8y ago
      >Public utilities are regulated as such because of the high capital costs to deliver to everyone and the need to gain the right of way to serve people. In other words, they're natural monopolies which we regulate because market dynamics don't work when you have a natural monopoly. The same reason we highly regulated and then broke up Bell Telephone and Standard Oil before it. App stores and online infrastructure are also natural monopolies, but they become so due to agglomeration and network effects. Regardless of the route, the end result is the same. >So now an iPhone is a “necessary tool”? A smartphone and its associated app ecosystem is, yes. Google's system isn't much better. And there doesn't seem to be much room for many other players. Again, regular home telephones were deemed necessary enough to regulate and break up. So was oil refining and finance.

scarface74 8y ago

Now you want to regulate private companies like public utilities? The switching cost in the US of changing phones is going to your provider and trading your phone in every six months to a year. When did not having an app stop people from participating in society? The average iPhone cost well over $600. People buying iPhones aren’t exactly underprivileged.

naravara 8y ago
>Now you want to regulate private companies like public utilities? Most public utilities are private companies. That's why it's called regulation and not nationalization. >The switching cost in the US of changing phones is going to your provider and trading your phone in every six months to a year. No, most of the switching costs are the costs (monetary and in unpaid labor of learning new tools and workflows) to users of switching from one platform to another. This empowers the gatekeepers to extract higher rents which, by definition, add no value to society. >When did not having an app stop people from participating in society? When people start building transportation access into them or make it contingent to being able to do some jobs it becomes a necessary tool for participating in society. The average car costs over $30k, that doesn't mean we would have put up with things like proprietary gas stations either.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Most public utilities are private companies. That's why it's called regulation and not nationalization. Public utilities are regulated as such because of the high capital costs to deliver to everyone and the need to gain the right of way to serve people. Last time I checked, Apple didn’t need to dig up roads to connect users. Most people think of utilities as being a public necessity. The right for Pornhub to put an app on the store. Not so much. When people start building transportation access into them or make it contingent to being able to do some jobs it becomes a necessary tool for participating in society. The average car costs over $30k, that doesn't mean we would have put up with things like proprietary gas stations either. So now an iPhone is a “necessary tool”?
  - naravara 8y ago
    >Public utilities are regulated as such because of the high capital costs to deliver to everyone and the need to gain the right of way to serve people. In other words, they're natural monopolies which we regulate because market dynamics don't work when you have a natural monopoly. The same reason we highly regulated and then broke up Bell Telephone and Standard Oil before it. App stores and online infrastructure are also natural monopolies, but they become so due to agglomeration and network effects. Regardless of the route, the end result is the same. >So now an iPhone is a “necessary tool”? A smartphone and its associated app ecosystem is, yes. Google's system isn't much better. And there doesn't seem to be much room for many other players. Again, regular home telephones were deemed necessary enough to regulate and break up. So was oil refining and finance.