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> best way for smart young people to make money It's like when you see people on YouTube who make horrendous clickbait, yet get millions of views. It's easy to

> best way for smart young people to make money It's like when you see people on YouTube who make horrendous clickbait, yet get millions of views. It's easy to laugh and dismiss them, but financially they're probably rolling in it... Are they the smart ones for exploiting the largest, most lucrative audience (young children who are more likely to watch more of the video before clicking off) and cashing in? Or are they legitimately not self-aware?

fossuser 8y ago
I'd guess it's just people reacting to financial incentives. It's a bummer that our society is structured with financial incentives that are so poorly aligned with interesting goals.
- wpietri 8y ago
  I think it's incumbent on us to change that. Too often something dubious is justified by how much money it makes. But we don't have to buy into it. And we can call it out when it happens. Look at how people treat the statement, "I work at Facebook", for example. It has changed a lot over the last decade. It used to be hot and positive. But I had a friend start just recently. They're doing something worthwhile and entirely unrelated to the many things terrible about Facebook. But they still felt obliged to apologize for it. I'd like to see more of that pressure applied to people who are making money by making the world worse.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    > I'd like to see more of that pressure applied to people who are making money by making the world worse. Yup. 100% agreed. And I want to remind everyone here that putting such pressure is a perfectly legitimate thing to do in market economy. Companies respond to market signals, so if a moral value is not made into a signal - i.e. made to impact sales - it won't get considered.
  - WA 8y ago
    So should I tell other people in my coworking space that I think their job is total bullshit? One or two happen to be in some field that trigger my bullshit alert and I think it’s somewhat sketchy what they do. For example, stuff around network marketing for dietary supplements. I mean, who am I to judge?
    - wpietri 8y ago
      I don't know that I'd walk over and say, "Buddy, this is bullshit!" Just as a practical matter, that doesn't do much to change minds. But as to who you are, I'd say you have several things that give you grounds to have an opinion. One is that you're a human being and want to see other humans treated well. Two, you're part of a variety of communities, and you have an interest in seeing those communities be healthy. Three, you're a successful entrepreneur, so you have real expertise in what makes for a good business. And surely there are more. In your shoes I'd definitely look for opportunities to influence people like that. It can be as simple as the look that passes across your face when they tell you what they do. If they ask for advice, you can point them to something healthier. You could give a talk on what makes for good, sustainable businesses. And with people where you are already an influencer (e.g., friends, family) you can definitely help keep them from getting into work like that.
      - WA 8y ago
        Thanks for your insightful and encouraging comment. This actually helps me a lot. The community-aspect is totally right: I don't want to have the coworking environment poisoned with "get-rich-quick" people. > You could give a talk on what makes for good, sustainable businesses. I will do! And I'll try to find words that sound encouraging to them. After all, most of them probably just want more freedom for themselves and the sketchy business ideas probably look like the simplest way to get there.
        wpietri 8y ago
        Excellent point. My mom got suckered by a couple of MLM schemes when I was a kid. She was very sharp but really wanted to improve our lives, and these people sold the opportunity angle really hard. Although it made me absolutely hate get-rich-quick schemes, I also know that the people caught up in them are generally sincere and well meaning. Good luck with it! Feel free to drop me a line and let me know how it goes.
AznHisoka 8y ago
What about the people on YouTube who make decent children's shows/cartoons?
- jamieweb 8y ago
  I think it's great because there's clear skill involved with the animating, story writing, illustrations, etc.
wpietri 8y ago
I think of self-awareness as similar to the problems of achieving consistency in a distributed system: it takes a lot of work to get right, and even then you probably missed things. Upton Sinclair wrote, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." In my experience, when people have a strong financial interest in not being self aware, they will generally not be self aware. I can never decide whether that's legitimate or not.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

fossuser 8y ago

I'd guess it's just people reacting to financial incentives. It's a bummer that our society is structured with financial incentives that are so poorly aligned with interesting goals.

wpietri 8y ago
I think it's incumbent on us to change that. Too often something dubious is justified by how much money it makes. But we don't have to buy into it. And we can call it out when it happens. Look at how people treat the statement, "I work at Facebook", for example. It has changed a lot over the last decade. It used to be hot and positive. But I had a friend start just recently. They're doing something worthwhile and entirely unrelated to the many things terrible about Facebook. But they still felt obliged to apologize for it. I'd like to see more of that pressure applied to people who are making money by making the world worse.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  > I'd like to see more of that pressure applied to people who are making money by making the world worse. Yup. 100% agreed. And I want to remind everyone here that putting such pressure is a perfectly legitimate thing to do in market economy. Companies respond to market signals, so if a moral value is not made into a signal - i.e. made to impact sales - it won't get considered.
- WA 8y ago
  So should I tell other people in my coworking space that I think their job is total bullshit? One or two happen to be in some field that trigger my bullshit alert and I think it’s somewhat sketchy what they do. For example, stuff around network marketing for dietary supplements. I mean, who am I to judge?
  - wpietri 8y ago
    I don't know that I'd walk over and say, "Buddy, this is bullshit!" Just as a practical matter, that doesn't do much to change minds. But as to who you are, I'd say you have several things that give you grounds to have an opinion. One is that you're a human being and want to see other humans treated well. Two, you're part of a variety of communities, and you have an interest in seeing those communities be healthy. Three, you're a successful entrepreneur, so you have real expertise in what makes for a good business. And surely there are more. In your shoes I'd definitely look for opportunities to influence people like that. It can be as simple as the look that passes across your face when they tell you what they do. If they ask for advice, you can point them to something healthier. You could give a talk on what makes for good, sustainable businesses. And with people where you are already an influencer (e.g., friends, family) you can definitely help keep them from getting into work like that.
    - WA 8y ago
      Thanks for your insightful and encouraging comment. This actually helps me a lot. The community-aspect is totally right: I don't want to have the coworking environment poisoned with "get-rich-quick" people. > You could give a talk on what makes for good, sustainable businesses. I will do! And I'll try to find words that sound encouraging to them. After all, most of them probably just want more freedom for themselves and the sketchy business ideas probably look like the simplest way to get there.
      - wpietri 8y ago
        Excellent point. My mom got suckered by a couple of MLM schemes when I was a kid. She was very sharp but really wanted to improve our lives, and these people sold the opportunity angle really hard. Although it made me absolutely hate get-rich-quick schemes, I also know that the people caught up in them are generally sincere and well meaning. Good luck with it! Feel free to drop me a line and let me know how it goes.

AznHisoka 8y ago

What about the people on YouTube who make decent children's shows/cartoons?

jamieweb 8y ago
I think it's great because there's clear skill involved with the animating, story writing, illustrations, etc.

wpietri 8y ago

I think of self-awareness as similar to the problems of achieving consistency in a distributed system: it takes a lot of work to get right, and even then you probably missed things. Upton Sinclair wrote, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." In my experience, when people have a strong financial interest in not being self aware, they will generally not be self aware. I can never decide whether that's legitimate or not.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]