5 ms·

When you've grown up facing a particular set of hardships that most of the people around you aren't familiar with, it's important for your mental health to be a

When you've grown up facing a particular set of hardships that most of the people around you aren't familiar with, it's important for your mental health to be able to spend time with folks who get it. It doesn't mean you spend all your time together chatting about oppression, but it's easier to relax and let your guard down with someone when you know they won't lecture you for being nervous around police, or try to smother their dismay when you mention your boyfriend, or whatever. It's more of a support group than a hobby meetup. As a white male you haven't experienced any of that, which is fine! But you should try to put yourself in the shoes of people who weren't so lucky. EDIT: I was addressing the poster directly. As a white guy with autism, I'm well aware that white males in general can experience lifelong hardship for any number of traits. But anyone who says "I don't really understand why all these groups are around race, sexuality or gender" presumably hasn't experienced that, or they'd immediately understand why someone would want to associate with folks who've been through the same shit. (Or maybe I'm still giving him too much credit. But I try assume ignorance rather than malice.)

WAthrowaway 8y ago
>As a white male you haven't experienced any of that, which is fine! You know absolutely nothing about this person and yet feel completely at liberty to issue blanket statements about their life and what they have experienced and how they 'should' feel. White privilege is obviously real. However, that doesn't mean that a white male hasn't ever been nervous around the police or felt queer thoughts. This is why people resent contemporary 'identity politics' and 'diversity' initiatives. Not because of the end goals themselves (that is, to mitigate racism and prejudice) but because the rhetorical methods currently employed are cloying, tone-deaf, and frankly just plain condescending. The overall point you are making is a noble and important one - to self-reflect and put yourself in other people's perspective - but I don't think this is the most effective way to convey it.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  See my edit, please.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
x220 8y ago
>As a white male you haven't experienced any of that This is almost unbelievably blind.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  See my edit, please.
  - x220 8y ago
    >I was addressing the poster directly. You don't directly know what the poster has gone through. Prefacing the statement with "as a white male" implies that you know what the poster has gone through because of his race. It is willfully blind. You can make convincing statements that white people in general in certain states at certain times face certain kinds of systemic discrimination. You cannot truthfully make the statement that the poster has not encountered serious discrimination, malice, or personal difficulties merely by knowing his race and sex. >presumably hasn't experienced that, or they'd immediately understand This is a Scotsman fallacy. I am certain I could find some people who have faced terrible racism that would agree with the poster's opinion.
maxxxxx 8y ago
"As a white male you haven't experienced any of that," Not all white males are the same and face the same challenges. Life is very different if you are good looking, tall, athletic, outgoing vs. being short, non-athletic, nerdy and socially awkward. I was in the second group and faced a lot of discrimination, bullying and ridicule when I grew up. I probably had a lot of advantages too but it's not that simple. There are plenty of rich non-white kids who probably have it much easier than most whites.
- shawnz 8y ago
  But obviously you haven't faced the specific set of challenges that only apply to non-white or non-male people. That is what the parent is suggesting, that it is helpful to have support groups containing people who have faced the same sorts of challenges as you. That doesn't mean that all non-white or non-male people universally have harder lives than all white/male people.
  - tdfx 8y ago
    Of course not, but the clumsy racism of the grand-grandparent poster immediately invalidated all of the otherwise good points that were made and clearly turned off a wide swath of an otherwise reasonable and receptive audience. There's quite a few politicians that could learn a great lesson from this thread.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      What racism?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - shawnz 8y ago
      It's not the responsibility of nonwhite/nonmale people to package issues of racism in a pleasing way for white/male people. Implying as such is basically implying that white/male people are the gatekeepers of respect and consideration. maxxxxx asked a question and PhasmaFelis gave an answer which is consistent with the reality of the situation. It's not a pleasing answer because race issues are not a pleasing topic.

WAthrowaway 8y ago

>As a white male you haven't experienced any of that, which is fine! You know absolutely nothing about this person and yet feel completely at liberty to issue blanket statements about their life and what they have experienced and how they 'should' feel. White privilege is obviously real. However, that doesn't mean that a white male hasn't ever been nervous around the police or felt queer thoughts. This is why people resent contemporary 'identity politics' and 'diversity' initiatives. Not because of the end goals themselves (that is, to mitigate racism and prejudice) but because the rhetorical methods currently employed are cloying, tone-deaf, and frankly just plain condescending. The overall point you are making is a noble and important one - to self-reflect and put yourself in other people's perspective - but I don't think this is the most effective way to convey it.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago
See my edit, please.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

x220 8y ago

>As a white male you haven't experienced any of that This is almost unbelievably blind.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago
See my edit, please.
- x220 8y ago
  >I was addressing the poster directly. You don't directly know what the poster has gone through. Prefacing the statement with "as a white male" implies that you know what the poster has gone through because of his race. It is willfully blind. You can make convincing statements that white people in general in certain states at certain times face certain kinds of systemic discrimination. You cannot truthfully make the statement that the poster has not encountered serious discrimination, malice, or personal difficulties merely by knowing his race and sex. >presumably hasn't experienced that, or they'd immediately understand This is a Scotsman fallacy. I am certain I could find some people who have faced terrible racism that would agree with the poster's opinion.

maxxxxx 8y ago

"As a white male you haven't experienced any of that," Not all white males are the same and face the same challenges. Life is very different if you are good looking, tall, athletic, outgoing vs. being short, non-athletic, nerdy and socially awkward. I was in the second group and faced a lot of discrimination, bullying and ridicule when I grew up. I probably had a lot of advantages too but it's not that simple. There are plenty of rich non-white kids who probably have it much easier than most whites.

shawnz 8y ago
But obviously you haven't faced the specific set of challenges that only apply to non-white or non-male people. That is what the parent is suggesting, that it is helpful to have support groups containing people who have faced the same sorts of challenges as you. That doesn't mean that all non-white or non-male people universally have harder lives than all white/male people.
- tdfx 8y ago
  Of course not, but the clumsy racism of the grand-grandparent poster immediately invalidated all of the otherwise good points that were made and clearly turned off a wide swath of an otherwise reasonable and receptive audience. There's quite a few politicians that could learn a great lesson from this thread.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    What racism?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - shawnz 8y ago
    It's not the responsibility of nonwhite/nonmale people to package issues of racism in a pleasing way for white/male people. Implying as such is basically implying that white/male people are the gatekeepers of respect and consideration. maxxxxx asked a question and PhasmaFelis gave an answer which is consistent with the reality of the situation. It's not a pleasing answer because race issues are not a pleasing topic.