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I'm all for equal rights 100%, but a lot of women conveniently forget about the bonus benefits society gives them just for being women, and they don't seem keen

by dgzl 8y ago

I'm all for equal rights 100%, but a lot of women conveniently forget about the bonus benefits society gives them just for being women, and they don't seem keen in giving it up/transferring to men when the time comes. As examples... holding the door open for women. The idea of "ladies first". The custom of men being required to message first on dating services. Men paying for dinner/etc. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't see women jumping to embrace this kind of equality.

BorgHunter 8y ago
> holding the door open for women I hold the door open for everyone. Male, female, and other. This is common courtesy. > The idea of "ladies first". I've never really encountered this. > The custom of men being required to message first on dating services. My wife messaged me first when we met on OkCupid. > Men paying for dinner Similarly, on our first date my wife offered to do half/half, but I insisted on paying largely because she was still a college student at that point, and I was not. > I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't see women jumping to embrace this kind of equality. Well, one of us is the more rare case. I'm not sure which one.
cortesoft 8y ago
I find a good majority of people hold the door open for everyone. The rule is usually, the first person to the door holds it open for the people behind. That certainly crosses gender lines. I think most feminists don't think men should pay for dinner each time on a date, and don't think "ladies first" is a rule we should keep. I don't know what you mean by "I don't see women jumping to embrace this kind of equality". Do you mean you don't see women protesting trying to get these equalities? That is incredibly disingenuous to claim that women not fighting for these equalities means they think they should persist. They don't fight for those equalities because those aren't the ones they need to fight for. They need to fight for the ones that are holding them back. Those other ones can follow.
- dgzl 8y ago
  I see many people, myself included, protesting for genuine equality. The only thing disingenuous I see is people thinking you can obtain both equality and equity at the same time. Bad examples aside, women get a "leg up" in a lot of ways, and men do too. If we want equally, we either need to be inclusive so that everyone gets the same leg up, or we need to compensate with different kinds of legs.
crankylinuxuser 8y ago
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't see women jumping to embrace this kind of equality. There's a few. You see them, by the way they do head forward in male-dominated careers that don't have prestige. Think: manual labor, professional manual labor (framers, steamfitters, plumbers, electricians, etc), military combat, and more. And there are a few who speak of equality (not equity).
rootusrootus 8y ago
Those are pretty weak examples. There are some legitimate gripes you could have brought up, IMO. Things like the way a man can get treated (ostracized or worse) when he shows up at a playground with his young daughter. Or the way many women react in a situation when it's just the two of you that implies she is really afraid of you. It makes me pretty uncomfortable to be in those situations but nobody really cares. That's a legit gripe. At the same time, men do basically run the world at this point, even if individually many of us are not in any kind of powerful role.
- dgzl 8y ago
  I agree, I was just trying to pick quick examples. Last year I was in line trying to get into a college dance club, and a group of girls in front of me started screaming, one saying "I lost my phone! Someone stole my phone!" They turned and made face at me and started accusing me of theft. My friends were already in and I was alone in line, clearly minding my own business to anyone paying attention. But once they started screaming I had to defend myself by basically yelling at them that they were being stupid and to leave me alone. They started makinga big scene and people all around were getting interested. Just a bit later and the girl just pathetically says "oh I found it" and walks away with her phone, clearly unconcerned with the potential fallout against me.
tomhoward 8y ago
Plenty of women are jumping to embrace this kind of equality. It's not always easy due to established behavioural tendencies, but I know of plenty of women who are determined to embrace equality on things like door-opening and dating.

by dgzl 8y ago

BorgHunter 8y ago

> holding the door open for women I hold the door open for everyone. Male, female, and other. This is common courtesy. > The idea of "ladies first". I've never really encountered this. > The custom of men being required to message first on dating services. My wife messaged me first when we met on OkCupid. > Men paying for dinner Similarly, on our first date my wife offered to do half/half, but I insisted on paying largely because she was still a college student at that point, and I was not. > I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't see women jumping to embrace this kind of equality. Well, one of us is the more rare case. I'm not sure which one.

cortesoft 8y ago

I find a good majority of people hold the door open for everyone. The rule is usually, the first person to the door holds it open for the people behind. That certainly crosses gender lines. I think most feminists don't think men should pay for dinner each time on a date, and don't think "ladies first" is a rule we should keep. I don't know what you mean by "I don't see women jumping to embrace this kind of equality". Do you mean you don't see women protesting trying to get these equalities? That is incredibly disingenuous to claim that women not fighting for these equalities means they think they should persist. They don't fight for those equalities because those aren't the ones they need to fight for. They need to fight for the ones that are holding them back. Those other ones can follow.

dgzl 8y ago
I see many people, myself included, protesting for genuine equality. The only thing disingenuous I see is people thinking you can obtain both equality and equity at the same time. Bad examples aside, women get a "leg up" in a lot of ways, and men do too. If we want equally, we either need to be inclusive so that everyone gets the same leg up, or we need to compensate with different kinds of legs.

crankylinuxuser 8y ago

> I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't see women jumping to embrace this kind of equality. There's a few. You see them, by the way they do head forward in male-dominated careers that don't have prestige. Think: manual labor, professional manual labor (framers, steamfitters, plumbers, electricians, etc), military combat, and more. And there are a few who speak of equality (not equity).

rootusrootus 8y ago

Those are pretty weak examples. There are some legitimate gripes you could have brought up, IMO. Things like the way a man can get treated (ostracized or worse) when he shows up at a playground with his young daughter. Or the way many women react in a situation when it's just the two of you that implies she is really afraid of you. It makes me pretty uncomfortable to be in those situations but nobody really cares. That's a legit gripe. At the same time, men do basically run the world at this point, even if individually many of us are not in any kind of powerful role.

dgzl 8y ago
I agree, I was just trying to pick quick examples. Last year I was in line trying to get into a college dance club, and a group of girls in front of me started screaming, one saying "I lost my phone! Someone stole my phone!" They turned and made face at me and started accusing me of theft. My friends were already in and I was alone in line, clearly minding my own business to anyone paying attention. But once they started screaming I had to defend myself by basically yelling at them that they were being stupid and to leave me alone. They started makinga big scene and people all around were getting interested. Just a bit later and the girl just pathetically says "oh I found it" and walks away with her phone, clearly unconcerned with the potential fallout against me.

tomhoward 8y ago

Plenty of women are jumping to embrace this kind of equality. It's not always easy due to established behavioural tendencies, but I know of plenty of women who are determined to embrace equality on things like door-opening and dating.