4 ms·

I am a white male and in my department we have a lower percentage than a lot of the groups who have an ERG. Sometimes I toy with the idea of opening up an ERG f

I am a white male and in my department we have a lower percentage than a lot of the groups who have an ERG. Sometimes I toy with the idea of opening up an ERG for white males. I wonder how this would come across. I don't really understand why all these groups are around race, sexuality or gender. This seems to me the opposite of diversity. In my view there should be groups around interests instead.

Spooky23 8y ago
Usually it's about cultural or other shared affiliations. My dad was a big member of the "Emerald Society" at his employer, which was a group of Irish immigrants and mostly first-generation US born children. A great, non third-rail example of why this is relevant can be seen in the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding". There's a shared cultural, religious and other heritage and story that holds the characters together. As a white guy, I would find a white-guy club really weird. I could see something like a dad group, baseball team or fan group, engineering society, a catholic religious/service group or something similar as something that I would potentially identify with. Maybe some sort of Irish heritage thing, but I don't know if that would be relevant to me, as there isn't really a shared experience there.
- 1999 8y ago
  Also as a white guy, my ancestors have been in North America for quite a while, are mixed between and culturally disconnected from European identities since before the current NA countries were created, also since before some of the current European countries were created, and the ones that did exist back then have probably attacked us at one point or another. Even though I like them, adopting an European cultural identity would be fake and I absolutely hate fakeness. It is true that there are still lots of interesting groups to join, but none based on culture.
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
When you've grown up facing a particular set of hardships that most of the people around you aren't familiar with, it's important for your mental health to be able to spend time with folks who get it. It doesn't mean you spend all your time together chatting about oppression, but it's easier to relax and let your guard down with someone when you know they won't lecture you for being nervous around police, or try to smother their dismay when you mention your boyfriend, or whatever. It's more of a support group than a hobby meetup. As a white male you haven't experienced any of that, which is fine! But you should try to put yourself in the shoes of people who weren't so lucky. EDIT: I was addressing the poster directly. As a white guy with autism, I'm well aware that white males in general can experience lifelong hardship for any number of traits. But anyone who says "I don't really understand why all these groups are around race, sexuality or gender" presumably hasn't experienced that, or they'd immediately understand why someone would want to associate with folks who've been through the same shit. (Or maybe I'm still giving him too much credit. But I try assume ignorance rather than malice.)
- WAthrowaway 8y ago
  >As a white male you haven't experienced any of that, which is fine! You know absolutely nothing about this person and yet feel completely at liberty to issue blanket statements about their life and what they have experienced and how they 'should' feel. White privilege is obviously real. However, that doesn't mean that a white male hasn't ever been nervous around the police or felt queer thoughts. This is why people resent contemporary 'identity politics' and 'diversity' initiatives. Not because of the end goals themselves (that is, to mitigate racism and prejudice) but because the rhetorical methods currently employed are cloying, tone-deaf, and frankly just plain condescending. The overall point you are making is a noble and important one - to self-reflect and put yourself in other people's perspective - but I don't think this is the most effective way to convey it.
  - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
    See my edit, please.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- x220 8y ago
  >As a white male you haven't experienced any of that This is almost unbelievably blind.
  - PhasmaFelis 8y ago
    See my edit, please.
    - x220 8y ago
      >I was addressing the poster directly. You don't directly know what the poster has gone through. Prefacing the statement with "as a white male" implies that you know what the poster has gone through because of his race. It is willfully blind. You can make convincing statements that white people in general in certain states at certain times face certain kinds of systemic discrimination. You cannot truthfully make the statement that the poster has not encountered serious discrimination, malice, or personal difficulties merely by knowing his race and sex. >presumably hasn't experienced that, or they'd immediately understand This is a Scotsman fallacy. I am certain I could find some people who have faced terrible racism that would agree with the poster's opinion.
WAthrowaway 8y ago
>I don't really understand why all these groups are around race, sexuality or gender. This seems to me the opposite of diversity. In my view there should be groups around interests instead. I don't see why a reason why you can't have both?
40acres 8y ago
If you're serious about this a "white male" ERG is probably not politically correct (sorry). I'd probably just go with a "special interest group" not tied to race or gender. A gaming club, pickup sports club, something for dads.. I think Google has an ERG for older folks..
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I am not serious a white ERG. My point is that race, gender or sexuality based groups are not "diverse". I also find it hypocritical that only some groups are allowed to have a race/heritage based ERG whereas others will be called racist if they do so.
  - jackvalentine 8y ago
    I saw someone write something pretty good about this in relation to the idea a few years back and let me try and regurgitate it. I'll probably screw it up though so please use the principle of charity when reading. -- Why are 'black pride' and 'white pride' not equal? The 'white' cultures of the west usually made it through to their colonies fairly intact and recognizable. The French, the Irish (ignoring changing notions of what 'white' is), the Germans etc. So be proud! Be proud of your Irish heritage, your French heritage, your Croatian heritage. Black people in America... African slaves came from all over Central and West Africa. Their culture was very quickly all melted together in America and the genealogy muddied and for the most part a modern descendant can't say empirically exactly where in Africa their ancestors came from, let alone have had the elements of culture from that place handed down to them reliably. So the only 'shared experience' of black people in America is... being black in America. Then combine in the historic issues of being a 'lesser' race in American history and "black power" or "black interest groups" and holidays like Kwanzaa are a response to that. --- Anyway, they're not my thoughts but I've paraphrased them as best as I can remember. It makes sense to me at least as a starting point. What do you think? The real spanner in the works for this line of thinking is 'asian' groups lumping together all the individual cultures of asia! Ideally, one day we'll have lived alongside each other long enough that this is all a historic curiosity in the same way 'whiteness' has vastly broadened it's scope in the last 100 years.
JimboOmega 8y ago
When I started my current job I was the only white person in engineering. The reason that it makes no sense to have a "white male" group is that's the dominant culture generally. A lot of that culture, the "baseline American" culture, is of interest to people who aren't in that group, but the reverse is true way less frequently. Indian-Americans are going to know what Christmas is and might even participate in a gift exchange, but are white people going to observe Diwali? I was the only LGBT person, and THAT experience is way more isolating. Groups around interests are great, but you run the risk of creating groups that are popular/mainstream and still fail to include those who are not as mainstream in their interests. The whole point is to help people who feel like they are different find their place, and a lot of potential interest groups can start to look like a white male club under a different label. For instance, consider a craft beer group, or an (American) Football group.

Spooky23 8y ago

Usually it's about cultural or other shared affiliations. My dad was a big member of the "Emerald Society" at his employer, which was a group of Irish immigrants and mostly first-generation US born children. A great, non third-rail example of why this is relevant can be seen in the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding". There's a shared cultural, religious and other heritage and story that holds the characters together. As a white guy, I would find a white-guy club really weird. I could see something like a dad group, baseball team or fan group, engineering society, a catholic religious/service group or something similar as something that I would potentially identify with. Maybe some sort of Irish heritage thing, but I don't know if that would be relevant to me, as there isn't really a shared experience there.

1999 8y ago
Also as a white guy, my ancestors have been in North America for quite a while, are mixed between and culturally disconnected from European identities since before the current NA countries were created, also since before some of the current European countries were created, and the ones that did exist back then have probably attacked us at one point or another. Even though I like them, adopting an European cultural identity would be fake and I absolutely hate fakeness. It is true that there are still lots of interesting groups to join, but none based on culture.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago

When you've grown up facing a particular set of hardships that most of the people around you aren't familiar with, it's important for your mental health to be able to spend time with folks who get it. It doesn't mean you spend all your time together chatting about oppression, but it's easier to relax and let your guard down with someone when you know they won't lecture you for being nervous around police, or try to smother their dismay when you mention your boyfriend, or whatever. It's more of a support group than a hobby meetup. As a white male you haven't experienced any of that, which is fine! But you should try to put yourself in the shoes of people who weren't so lucky. EDIT: I was addressing the poster directly. As a white guy with autism, I'm well aware that white males in general can experience lifelong hardship for any number of traits. But anyone who says "I don't really understand why all these groups are around race, sexuality or gender" presumably hasn't experienced that, or they'd immediately understand why someone would want to associate with folks who've been through the same shit. (Or maybe I'm still giving him too much credit. But I try assume ignorance rather than malice.)

WAthrowaway 8y ago
>As a white male you haven't experienced any of that, which is fine! You know absolutely nothing about this person and yet feel completely at liberty to issue blanket statements about their life and what they have experienced and how they 'should' feel. White privilege is obviously real. However, that doesn't mean that a white male hasn't ever been nervous around the police or felt queer thoughts. This is why people resent contemporary 'identity politics' and 'diversity' initiatives. Not because of the end goals themselves (that is, to mitigate racism and prejudice) but because the rhetorical methods currently employed are cloying, tone-deaf, and frankly just plain condescending. The overall point you are making is a noble and important one - to self-reflect and put yourself in other people's perspective - but I don't think this is the most effective way to convey it.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  See my edit, please.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
x220 8y ago
>As a white male you haven't experienced any of that This is almost unbelievably blind.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  See my edit, please.
  - x220 8y ago
    >I was addressing the poster directly. You don't directly know what the poster has gone through. Prefacing the statement with "as a white male" implies that you know what the poster has gone through because of his race. It is willfully blind. You can make convincing statements that white people in general in certain states at certain times face certain kinds of systemic discrimination. You cannot truthfully make the statement that the poster has not encountered serious discrimination, malice, or personal difficulties merely by knowing his race and sex. >presumably hasn't experienced that, or they'd immediately understand This is a Scotsman fallacy. I am certain I could find some people who have faced terrible racism that would agree with the poster's opinion.

WAthrowaway 8y ago

>I don't really understand why all these groups are around race, sexuality or gender. This seems to me the opposite of diversity. In my view there should be groups around interests instead. I don't see why a reason why you can't have both?

40acres 8y ago

If you're serious about this a "white male" ERG is probably not politically correct (sorry). I'd probably just go with a "special interest group" not tied to race or gender. A gaming club, pickup sports club, something for dads.. I think Google has an ERG for older folks..

maxxxxx 8y ago
I am not serious a white ERG. My point is that race, gender or sexuality based groups are not "diverse". I also find it hypocritical that only some groups are allowed to have a race/heritage based ERG whereas others will be called racist if they do so.
- jackvalentine 8y ago
  I saw someone write something pretty good about this in relation to the idea a few years back and let me try and regurgitate it. I'll probably screw it up though so please use the principle of charity when reading. -- Why are 'black pride' and 'white pride' not equal? The 'white' cultures of the west usually made it through to their colonies fairly intact and recognizable. The French, the Irish (ignoring changing notions of what 'white' is), the Germans etc. So be proud! Be proud of your Irish heritage, your French heritage, your Croatian heritage. Black people in America... African slaves came from all over Central and West Africa. Their culture was very quickly all melted together in America and the genealogy muddied and for the most part a modern descendant can't say empirically exactly where in Africa their ancestors came from, let alone have had the elements of culture from that place handed down to them reliably. So the only 'shared experience' of black people in America is... being black in America. Then combine in the historic issues of being a 'lesser' race in American history and "black power" or "black interest groups" and holidays like Kwanzaa are a response to that. --- Anyway, they're not my thoughts but I've paraphrased them as best as I can remember. It makes sense to me at least as a starting point. What do you think? The real spanner in the works for this line of thinking is 'asian' groups lumping together all the individual cultures of asia! Ideally, one day we'll have lived alongside each other long enough that this is all a historic curiosity in the same way 'whiteness' has vastly broadened it's scope in the last 100 years.

JimboOmega 8y ago

When I started my current job I was the only white person in engineering. The reason that it makes no sense to have a "white male" group is that's the dominant culture generally. A lot of that culture, the "baseline American" culture, is of interest to people who aren't in that group, but the reverse is true way less frequently. Indian-Americans are going to know what Christmas is and might even participate in a gift exchange, but are white people going to observe Diwali? I was the only LGBT person, and THAT experience is way more isolating. Groups around interests are great, but you run the risk of creating groups that are popular/mainstream and still fail to include those who are not as mainstream in their interests. The whole point is to help people who feel like they are different find their place, and a lot of potential interest groups can start to look like a white male club under a different label. For instance, consider a craft beer group, or an (American) Football group.