5 ms·

I think a lot of the frustration is that all this tunneling stuff seems like a huge distraction from what we KNOW works. Mixed use development near transit sup

I think a lot of the frustration is that all this tunneling stuff seems like a huge distraction from what we KNOW works. Mixed use development near transit supplemented by a network of bike lanes an 8 or 80 year old would feel safe cycling on. Tunnels aren't magic. Does anyone here think they won't succumb to induced demand just like any other road? Even if they reduce congestion (and they won't - the 405 carpool lane made commutes a minute longer, not shorter) all that means is people who want more space move farther from the city, enabling more urban sprawl, and thereby trashing the planet even more. Quick, cheap tunneling would be GREAT for building subways, though. Shame Elon hates public transport https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-awkward-dislike-mass-transit/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-awkward-dislike-mass-t... The other thing about Elon is that one wonders how many clever people are toiling away on solving the world's problems but can't get attention/funding/support because Elon sucks it all up, AND he's dangerously close to going full Kanye on Twitter (cave rescuers are pedophiles? wtf?), which doesn't help anything.

leesec 8y ago
>I think a lot of the frustration is that all this tunneling stuff seems like a huge distraction from what we KNOW works. If we know it works how come no one has done it? Traffic and congestion is a major issue in basically ever major city in the US (and probably the world), why the hate for attempted innovation? >The other thing about Elon is that one wonders how many clever people are toiling away on solving the world's problems but can't get attention/funding/support because Elon sucks it all up Is this really your concern? If anything I'd say he's inspiring many more people to try and tackle hard problems on a major scale. I'm way more frustrated that all the clever people are being sucked up by Facebook and Co to make ads super good and make time-wasters more addictive.
- CalRobert 8y ago
  To the best of my knowledge, you are correct that every US city is horrible in this regard. This was not by accident. To your comment "If we know it works how come no one has done it? " - 1) We have done it. Amsterdam fought like hell for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o . Now they have one of the finest cities in the world in which to move about. Copenhagen at rush hour handles loads of people well because they have built systems that move people efficiently and safely. And pleasantly. Even driving there is nice, paradoxically. https://twitter.com/Pidge/status/1064443820245422080 https://twitter.com/Pidge/status/1064443820245422080 2) People fight it because they believe they should be able to drive anywhere they like, for free, and without interruption - and then even store their car for free as well! The ideal situation is to be the only driver, but of course that only works if driving is very expensive (something I support). In LA people are so furious at the idea of not being able to drive everywhere they shout down (almost) anything resembling progress. Things like Elon's tunnel are used as ammunition in these fights. After all, why should we build bike lanes when we're getting these kickass tunnels!?? This is part of why I left LA. As for your latter point - yes, it is very much my concern. We have similar views regarding Facebook and Co. but given that Elon's tunnels are unlikely to actually make life better (note my earlier comment regarding induced demand) this is taking resources from actual solutions we could do right now, cheaply, and that we know work.
  - leesec 8y ago
    There are less people in all of Denmark than in LA. Not even half. Novel solutions will be needed. Much less area in Copenhagen than LA as well. Also I really don't think this a resource drain. Before Elon there was basically no effort, and so if there was no Elon there would still be no effort. Also I would be shocked if there were more than like 150 people at Boring company.
    - CalRobert 8y ago
      Much less area than Copenhagen because LA is mostly car infrastructure. Lines on a map don't make a city.

leesec 8y ago

>I think a lot of the frustration is that all this tunneling stuff seems like a huge distraction from what we KNOW works. If we know it works how come no one has done it? Traffic and congestion is a major issue in basically ever major city in the US (and probably the world), why the hate for attempted innovation? >The other thing about Elon is that one wonders how many clever people are toiling away on solving the world's problems but can't get attention/funding/support because Elon sucks it all up Is this really your concern? If anything I'd say he's inspiring many more people to try and tackle hard problems on a major scale. I'm way more frustrated that all the clever people are being sucked up by Facebook and Co to make ads super good and make time-wasters more addictive.

CalRobert 8y ago
To the best of my knowledge, you are correct that every US city is horrible in this regard. This was not by accident. To your comment "If we know it works how come no one has done it? " - 1) We have done it. Amsterdam fought like hell for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o . Now they have one of the finest cities in the world in which to move about. Copenhagen at rush hour handles loads of people well because they have built systems that move people efficiently and safely. And pleasantly. Even driving there is nice, paradoxically. https://twitter.com/Pidge/status/1064443820245422080 https://twitter.com/Pidge/status/1064443820245422080 2) People fight it because they believe they should be able to drive anywhere they like, for free, and without interruption - and then even store their car for free as well! The ideal situation is to be the only driver, but of course that only works if driving is very expensive (something I support). In LA people are so furious at the idea of not being able to drive everywhere they shout down (almost) anything resembling progress. Things like Elon's tunnel are used as ammunition in these fights. After all, why should we build bike lanes when we're getting these kickass tunnels!?? This is part of why I left LA. As for your latter point - yes, it is very much my concern. We have similar views regarding Facebook and Co. but given that Elon's tunnels are unlikely to actually make life better (note my earlier comment regarding induced demand) this is taking resources from actual solutions we could do right now, cheaply, and that we know work.
- leesec 8y ago
  There are less people in all of Denmark than in LA. Not even half. Novel solutions will be needed. Much less area in Copenhagen than LA as well. Also I really don't think this a resource drain. Before Elon there was basically no effort, and so if there was no Elon there would still be no effort. Also I would be shocked if there were more than like 150 people at Boring company.
  - CalRobert 8y ago
    Much less area than Copenhagen because LA is mostly car infrastructure. Lines on a map don't make a city.