4 ms·

We are trying to hire at the moment and most of the resume we've received have been from men.... we'd like to interview some women....one of the good resume fro

We are trying to hire at the moment and most of the resume we've received have been from men.... we'd like to interview some women....one of the good resume from a female is missing their email address.... in my book that would have been an automatic no but...since we need female candidates we tried calling them for an interview...

Double_a_92 8y ago
So it is indeed because of gender discrimination/diversity?
AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
> since we need female candidates May I ask why? Why does it matter if the candidate is male or female? Why not just hire the most fit candidates regardless of their gender and be done with it?
- jkestner 8y ago
  Because that's how you get Apple Health omitting a monthly bodily function that a majority of the population has. Diversity of perspective makes a better product.
  - refurb 8y ago
    Is that really the reason why Apple Health didn't include menstrual cycle tracking? Or did they just decide not to add it in additional to a bunch of other things?
    - alrehn 8y ago
      Not super familiar with that example but another one is all kinds of technology not working well with darker skin.
      - manfredo 8y ago
        Early versions of facial recognition had difficulty working with darker skin due to genuine technical challenges, namely lower contrast between facial features and the background skin color (e.g. dark eyebrows on dark skin vs. dark eyebrows on light skin). This was not solved by hiring dark skinned engineers, it wad solved by a different technical solution: infrared cameras that could better sense features regardless of skin color for example. The developers of facial recognition tools were aware of the early devices' limitations, and dedicating resources towards an approach that worked better on subsequent iterations. Why people think things would have automagically worked on the first iteration if the teams building the devices were more diverse, and why people continue to use this as an example of the necessity of diverse teams is a mystery to me.
- artursapek 8y ago
  It's in vogue in Silicon Valley to bias hiring standards in order to get more "equality" on the other side.
  - 52-6F-62 8y ago
    This has little to do with SV.
    - manfredo 8y ago
      I've worked in SV and elsewhere and the push to hire disproportionate numbers of women in tech roles in definitely stronger in SV. For example, at my company 27% of our tech workforce is women, as compared to an industry average of 20% (figures are from our head of diversity). Despite already having an overrepresentation, we continue to enagage in discriminatory hiring policies that favor women and we've bumped our target for women in tech roles up to 33%. I haven't worked outside of SV in 5+ years but this level of aggressiveness in pursuing diversity is not something I witnessed elsewhere.
      - 52-6F-62 8y ago
        I work well outside of SV and the push for greater diversity is a large endeavour in most industries (I've worked in many). I really disagree with your wording, and the slant you're taking with calling an above average representation in your company as an overrepresentation. You're comparing your number to the current standard which is often considered insufficient. But I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree on that point, because this isn't the subject of the thread.
        manfredo 8y ago
        > I really disagree with your wording, and the slant you're taking with calling an above average representation in your company as an overrepresentation. An above average representation is the definition of an overrepresentation. I'm not sure why you are attempting to state otherwise. Whether you desire a larger representation of women in tech as a whole does not alter the objective fact that a company with a share of women in tech roles larger than the tech industry average has an overrepresentation of women in tech roles.
- ska 8y ago
  Why not just hire the most fit candidates regardless of their gender and be done with it? Short answer, because you aren't actually capable of identifying them. Longer: mostly because there is real value in team diversity, and it's almost impossible to remove your decision biases without actively addressing them. So if you identify a potential bias, it's not crazy to try and do something about it and see how that works for you.
  - 52-6F-62 8y ago
    There is a very real and pragmatic application for this very thing, specifically in AI work as identified by Fei-Fei Li: https://www.wired.com/story/fei-fei-li-artificial-intelligence-humanity/ https://www.wired.com/story/fei-fei-li-artificial-intelligen... edit: my phrasing wasn't very clear. I mean for having a team from a diverse makeup.
0x14c1de72 8y ago
>since we need female candidates Yikes
turc1656 8y ago
Why do you "need" female candidates? And why, in general, do you have a desire to "interview some women"? Why do you view your candidates by group association rather than as individuals? I don't understand why, if you have a bunch of resumes, do you seem to be holding out for some female applicants. Why not just interview the ones that seem like the best options and choose the best person for the job, regardless of their gender and how many qualified female candidates you have (or don't have)? You don't control who applies to the position. Also, why would a missing email be an automatic no if they included another way to reach them using a standard method of communication? Or are you saying that they included no way of reaching them and you had to somehow locate a phone number for this person?

Double_a_92 8y ago

So it is indeed because of gender discrimination/diversity?

AnaniasAnanas 8y ago

> since we need female candidates May I ask why? Why does it matter if the candidate is male or female? Why not just hire the most fit candidates regardless of their gender and be done with it?

jkestner 8y ago
Because that's how you get Apple Health omitting a monthly bodily function that a majority of the population has. Diversity of perspective makes a better product.
- refurb 8y ago
  Is that really the reason why Apple Health didn't include menstrual cycle tracking? Or did they just decide not to add it in additional to a bunch of other things?
  - alrehn 8y ago
    Not super familiar with that example but another one is all kinds of technology not working well with darker skin.
    - manfredo 8y ago
      Early versions of facial recognition had difficulty working with darker skin due to genuine technical challenges, namely lower contrast between facial features and the background skin color (e.g. dark eyebrows on dark skin vs. dark eyebrows on light skin). This was not solved by hiring dark skinned engineers, it wad solved by a different technical solution: infrared cameras that could better sense features regardless of skin color for example. The developers of facial recognition tools were aware of the early devices' limitations, and dedicating resources towards an approach that worked better on subsequent iterations. Why people think things would have automagically worked on the first iteration if the teams building the devices were more diverse, and why people continue to use this as an example of the necessity of diverse teams is a mystery to me.
artursapek 8y ago
It's in vogue in Silicon Valley to bias hiring standards in order to get more "equality" on the other side.
- 52-6F-62 8y ago
  This has little to do with SV.
  - manfredo 8y ago
    I've worked in SV and elsewhere and the push to hire disproportionate numbers of women in tech roles in definitely stronger in SV. For example, at my company 27% of our tech workforce is women, as compared to an industry average of 20% (figures are from our head of diversity). Despite already having an overrepresentation, we continue to enagage in discriminatory hiring policies that favor women and we've bumped our target for women in tech roles up to 33%. I haven't worked outside of SV in 5+ years but this level of aggressiveness in pursuing diversity is not something I witnessed elsewhere.
    - 52-6F-62 8y ago
      I work well outside of SV and the push for greater diversity is a large endeavour in most industries (I've worked in many). I really disagree with your wording, and the slant you're taking with calling an above average representation in your company as an overrepresentation. You're comparing your number to the current standard which is often considered insufficient. But I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree on that point, because this isn't the subject of the thread.
      - manfredo 8y ago
        > I really disagree with your wording, and the slant you're taking with calling an above average representation in your company as an overrepresentation. An above average representation is the definition of an overrepresentation. I'm not sure why you are attempting to state otherwise. Whether you desire a larger representation of women in tech as a whole does not alter the objective fact that a company with a share of women in tech roles larger than the tech industry average has an overrepresentation of women in tech roles.
ska 8y ago
Why not just hire the most fit candidates regardless of their gender and be done with it? Short answer, because you aren't actually capable of identifying them. Longer: mostly because there is real value in team diversity, and it's almost impossible to remove your decision biases without actively addressing them. So if you identify a potential bias, it's not crazy to try and do something about it and see how that works for you.
- 52-6F-62 8y ago
  There is a very real and pragmatic application for this very thing, specifically in AI work as identified by Fei-Fei Li: https://www.wired.com/story/fei-fei-li-artificial-intelligence-humanity/ https://www.wired.com/story/fei-fei-li-artificial-intelligen... edit: my phrasing wasn't very clear. I mean for having a team from a diverse makeup.

0x14c1de72 8y ago

>since we need female candidates Yikes

turc1656 8y ago

Why do you "need" female candidates? And why, in general, do you have a desire to "interview some women"? Why do you view your candidates by group association rather than as individuals? I don't understand why, if you have a bunch of resumes, do you seem to be holding out for some female applicants. Why not just interview the ones that seem like the best options and choose the best person for the job, regardless of their gender and how many qualified female candidates you have (or don't have)? You don't control who applies to the position. Also, why would a missing email be an automatic no if they included another way to reach them using a standard method of communication? Or are you saying that they included no way of reaching them and you had to somehow locate a phone number for this person?