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The problem is that there is no form of digital good that is incorruptible and unfalsifiable that is not blockchain-based.

logifail 8y ago
Someone else just suggested that we ought not to "let perfect get in the way of improvement". The way this discussion is going I can't help but think of Ernesto Sirolli's talk[0] To put it another way, are the refugees themselves demanding "incorruptible and unfalsifiable", or are they actually just hungry? [0] https://www.ted.com/talks/ernesto_sirolli_want_to_help_someone_shut_up_and_listen https://www.ted.com/talks/ernesto_sirolli_want_to_help_someo...
- decentralised 8y ago
  The refugees just want to go back home and be with their loved ones. The demand for a unfalsifiable and incorruptible digital record comes from the NGOs and government organisations who want to make sure their funds are being used to feed the needy not the insurgents that often get into the camps. I have only a partial view of what life is like in one such camp. What I'm told and have seen to some extent is that people who are in such a fragile position trust no one and will act on their basic survival instincts, which sometimes makes the life of those trying to help them very hard. What I'm trying to say is that if we sent dollars into the camp, you have no idea what people would do for them...
  - logifail 8y ago
    >> NGOs and government organisations [..] want to make sure their funds are being used to feed the needy not the insurgents that often get into the camps Won't the insurgents just take from the needy, once the needy have had their iris scanned and redeemed their "unfalsifiable and incorruptible digital record"? Someone's already mentioned the $5 wrench up-thread...
    - decentralised 8y ago
      The insurgents will take anything they can get their hands on, but the vouchers are attached to each account holder and there's no "transfer" mechanism for a secondary market so you either register voluntarily and have a retina scan or you're out of the system. Not an ideal solution for us perhaps, but given the context I assure you no other solution was even remotely adequate.
  - davidgerard 8y ago
    This is false - the demand comes from the project lead being an ETH hodler who wanted to shove a "blockchain" in there somehow, even though it makes literally no technical sense: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2017/11/26/the-world-food-programmes-much-publicised-blockchain-has-one-participant-i-e-its-a-database/ https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2017/11/26/the-world-fo...
    - decentralised 8y ago
      It's entirely possible you miss the point of it being a PoC network which is why it only has "one client" and the fact that it helped real people.
      - davidgerard 8y ago
        It's philosophically possible, but it's overwhemingly more likely that what I described is the case, and is increasingly accepted as being the case. It's not a PoC as far as they're concerned - they think this is the real system, and they've been trying to recruit new participants, and every one has declined. They don't seem to be asking themselves why this is ... In every production case I've seen - and I've been watching closely for years - the blockchain bit is an extra that doesn't do anything better than alternative technologies would, and often does worse.

logifail 8y ago

Someone else just suggested that we ought not to "let perfect get in the way of improvement". The way this discussion is going I can't help but think of Ernesto Sirolli's talk[0] To put it another way, are the refugees themselves demanding "incorruptible and unfalsifiable", or are they actually just hungry? [0] https://www.ted.com/talks/ernesto_sirolli_want_to_help_someone_shut_up_and_listen https://www.ted.com/talks/ernesto_sirolli_want_to_help_someo...

decentralised 8y ago
The refugees just want to go back home and be with their loved ones. The demand for a unfalsifiable and incorruptible digital record comes from the NGOs and government organisations who want to make sure their funds are being used to feed the needy not the insurgents that often get into the camps. I have only a partial view of what life is like in one such camp. What I'm told and have seen to some extent is that people who are in such a fragile position trust no one and will act on their basic survival instincts, which sometimes makes the life of those trying to help them very hard. What I'm trying to say is that if we sent dollars into the camp, you have no idea what people would do for them...
- logifail 8y ago
  >> NGOs and government organisations [..] want to make sure their funds are being used to feed the needy not the insurgents that often get into the camps Won't the insurgents just take from the needy, once the needy have had their iris scanned and redeemed their "unfalsifiable and incorruptible digital record"? Someone's already mentioned the $5 wrench up-thread...
  - decentralised 8y ago
    The insurgents will take anything they can get their hands on, but the vouchers are attached to each account holder and there's no "transfer" mechanism for a secondary market so you either register voluntarily and have a retina scan or you're out of the system. Not an ideal solution for us perhaps, but given the context I assure you no other solution was even remotely adequate.
- davidgerard 8y ago
  This is false - the demand comes from the project lead being an ETH hodler who wanted to shove a "blockchain" in there somehow, even though it makes literally no technical sense: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2017/11/26/the-world-food-programmes-much-publicised-blockchain-has-one-participant-i-e-its-a-database/ https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2017/11/26/the-world-fo...
  - decentralised 8y ago
    It's entirely possible you miss the point of it being a PoC network which is why it only has "one client" and the fact that it helped real people.
    - davidgerard 8y ago
      It's philosophically possible, but it's overwhemingly more likely that what I described is the case, and is increasingly accepted as being the case. It's not a PoC as far as they're concerned - they think this is the real system, and they've been trying to recruit new participants, and every one has declined. They don't seem to be asking themselves why this is ... In every production case I've seen - and I've been watching closely for years - the blockchain bit is an extra that doesn't do anything better than alternative technologies would, and often does worse.