8 ms·

I Bootstrapped My Side Project to $6k/Month (2017)

228 points by WD-42 8y ago

jvanderbot 8y ago
So, OP worked hard on a product that help OP, so that it would help others. OP did whatever it took to keep revenue coming in and learned a valuable set of skills along the way. Now OP is providing useful services to many users worldwide and making a living off it. Everyone has a disillusionment moment, and that's the real takeaway from this post, for me.
- anyfoo 8y ago
  “Useful”?
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    Sure. The app allows non-technical people to create something that they want, that has value for them, and that they couldn’t make on their own.
    - XorNot 8y ago
      IT and online problems I tend to be accelerationist about, so if he's managed to automate the ridiculous "download this app" cycle then more power to him.
    - anyfoo 8y ago
      Giving some other people with questionable motives and/or aptitude what they want might be “useful” to them, in the broadest sense of the word, but the net effect may well be less than that. The author himself admits that this might just end up flooding the store with questionable, low quality content. Lots of actions have consequences beyond their direct and immediate effects, realizing that is one of the harder parts of growing up.
  - throwaway932 8y ago
    The way scams are useful to the scammer.
archi42 8y ago
The most valuable point for me: Gamification! A friend of mine wrote his master's thesis on that topic. And yeah, turns out it works really well if done right ;-) Regarding the rest of the text: I wonder what value people using these apps get out of them? I share some of his sentiment: The aim is to onboard a bunch of people with a "get rich quick"-kind-of-mentality and flood a platform with content of questionable content (I mean, the content could be good - but somehow I doubt it if a single person creates a thousand apps). On the other hand: Living on 6k$ in Morocco? Could be a worse life...
- erikpukinskis 8y ago
  The secret of Hell, I think, is that you get there before death. By doing evil things, you invite an evil mentality into your mind which will prey on you as you become more feeble. The final transition from deathbed to the eternal fire is just a formality. If you plant the seeds of hell in your mind, they will be all that remains in the end. I guess some people think they will never become feeble, that they will maintain the power to keep the evil stuff separate from the rest of their life. But we are all enfeebled in the end.
  - stallmanite 8y ago
    Did you come up with this personally and/or is there someplace I can get more? Damn
    - gerbilly 8y ago
      A famous Zen story says a very similar thing: There was once a general who asked the Zen master Hakuin:"Are there really such things as Heaven and Hell?" "What do you do for a living?" Hakuin asked him. "I'm a general." "Ha, ha, ha! What idiot asked you to be his general? You look more like a butcher to me", the Zen master teased the general. "I'll cut you to pieces!" the general angrily pulled his sword. "Here lie the gates of Hell!" said the master. "Excuse me...Please forgive my insolence.” And Hakuin said:"Here lie the gates of Heaven." Heaven and Hell aren't places that suddenly appear after death. They exist here and now. Good and evil involve just a single instant of thought, and the gates of Heaven and Hell are ready to open for you at any time. (From Zen Stories: The Staff and Shout of the Venerable Ones)
RobertoG 8y ago
First page in HN, I bet he is going to get a few more users. This "I feel guilty but they are making money" narrative thing is just genius marketing. I take my hat off to him.
- DanTheManPR 8y ago
  It's the perfect capstone to the story.
- rb808 8y ago
  Every time I get into my Porsche I'm reminded of how bad the project is.
securingsincity 8y ago
This was written last year, it should have 2017 appended
- lotyrin 8y ago
  Yes, I was experiencing deja-vu for half a good half paragraph before checking the date.
- detaro 8y ago
  and had a HN discussion back then https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15713505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15713505
roymurdock 8y ago
damn, this guy built a tool for growth hackers to make android app store spam, added gamification when it started failing, then added a pyramid MLM referral system for users to market it by word of mouth. he's obviously very smart and motivated. it's just kind of sad to me that the ad economy has grown so large that this is the best way for smart young people to make money. i doubt he really hates his product at the end of the day, it's just a catchy way to market it. if he did, he would've walked away when his partner did to freelance some more or do another startup.
- kuroguro 8y ago
  Yeah, hate is a strong word. Then again helping people build generic crappy apps - which seems like is most of the user base - is probably disheartening. I worked for a SEO company for about a year making SaaS tools to help "analyze keywords", "supply backlinks", "generate content" and other woo woo magic. Waking up and walking to work was fun for only the first month :/ Most of the users made crappy copy-paste websites and did whatever they could to get a better rank on search engines.
  - sharemywin 8y ago
    Why not expand it add more features help people create more compelling creations.
    - mosselman 8y ago
      People who copy-paste crappy websites into life don’t lack the _tools_ to create ‘compelling creations’, they lack the will.
- mettamage 8y ago
  I doubt it as well as a similar story about AppyGen didn't surface too long ago on the front page (couple of months at most). That said, I do think app generators in general are a fun and cool idea. It's his target market more than anything else that makes it a spam machine.
- 8y ago
oconnor663 8y ago
> I couldn’t understand why users who were making a thousand dollars in ad revenue each month, didn’t upgrade their accounts, after all it only costs $25. Turns out, a lot of these users were living in countries where they couldn’t have a Visa card or PayPal account, and just couldn’t pay me even if they wanted to. I don't know if cryptocurrency is going to solve this problem, but whatever does solve it is going to generate an enormous amount of wealth.
- UncleEntity 8y ago
  One wonders how they get paid the ad money they earn? Simple solution: "We take the first $25 in ad revenue your app generates and you keep the rest." Complex solution: "We take 50% of the ad revenue your app generates unless you pay $25/month through outside means." ...unless they needed to create thousands of apps to make any income and 50% is cheaper than $25/app.
  - wyldfire 8y ago
    > We take the first $25 in ad revenue your app generates and you keep the rest. You could invoice them for the $25 but you cannot "keep" it until/unless your service becomes the advertising network's client.
jccooper 8y ago
Anybody have an idea what the apps this thing creates are?
Quarrelsome 8y ago
this is both terrifying and enthralling. A beautiful capture of the rationale behind the creation of monster. Love it.
the_common_man 8y ago
This is from 2017
blitmap 8y ago
Okay. I ultimately liked this posting. It started out rocky because he exposed he had accomplished so much at a young age (#imverysmart). Sounded like at several times he wanted to spend money he didn't really have. I liked the reflection and how he tried several different strategies to grow revenue. And the posting itself is a good way to boost visibility.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
Holy shit. I have so mixed feelings. First of all, thank you for sharing this story. Secondly, I envy your grit and the ability to just go and sell, instead of being stuck in impostor syndrome mode. Thirdly, shame on you for building a product which sole point is to make money by destroying the Play Store. And shame on you for working on it after you realized this. Foruthly, and this is the part I don't understand - how on Earth were you able to make money on that first app of yours? And how your customers are able to repeat that? I mean, who on Earth downloads this kind of stuff? I'm very confused about this. By your description, that app is "simple app with a list of videos, targeting a specific trending niche", i.e. not much more than a YouTube playlist. So who are the people downloading cookie-cutter apps when an universal one-stop app is available?
- whalesalad 8y ago
  > by destroying the Play Store One of the first comments on the post is asking about whether or not the OP intends to duplicate this effort on the Apple App Store. Say what you will about Apple's walled garden but the core difference between it and the Play store is that it's designed to prevent things like this. The Play store invites this sort of thing. Kudos to the OP for capitalizing on it.
- p2detar 8y ago
  > So who are the people downloading cookie-cutter apps when an universal one-stop app is available? A good question that I too would like to get an answer to. He does not mention if they had an adwords campaign. He did, however, write that they made tons more apps like that. So it's the "quantity vs quality" scenario I guess. Maybe something like what Ketchapp are/were doing.

228 points by WD-42 8y ago

So, OP worked hard on a product that help OP, so that it would help others. OP did whatever it took to keep revenue coming in and learned a valuable set of skills along the way. Now OP is providing useful services to many users worldwide and making a living off it. Everyone has a disillusionment moment, and that's the real takeaway from this post, for me.

anyfoo 8y ago
“Useful”?
- sokoloff 8y ago
  Sure. The app allows non-technical people to create something that they want, that has value for them, and that they couldn’t make on their own.
  - XorNot 8y ago
    IT and online problems I tend to be accelerationist about, so if he's managed to automate the ridiculous "download this app" cycle then more power to him.
  - anyfoo 8y ago
    Giving some other people with questionable motives and/or aptitude what they want might be “useful” to them, in the broadest sense of the word, but the net effect may well be less than that. The author himself admits that this might just end up flooding the store with questionable, low quality content. Lots of actions have consequences beyond their direct and immediate effects, realizing that is one of the harder parts of growing up.
- throwaway932 8y ago
  The way scams are useful to the scammer.

archi42 8y ago

The most valuable point for me: Gamification! A friend of mine wrote his master's thesis on that topic. And yeah, turns out it works really well if done right ;-) Regarding the rest of the text: I wonder what value people using these apps get out of them? I share some of his sentiment: The aim is to onboard a bunch of people with a "get rich quick"-kind-of-mentality and flood a platform with content of questionable content (I mean, the content could be good - but somehow I doubt it if a single person creates a thousand apps). On the other hand: Living on 6k$ in Morocco? Could be a worse life...

erikpukinskis 8y ago
The secret of Hell, I think, is that you get there before death. By doing evil things, you invite an evil mentality into your mind which will prey on you as you become more feeble. The final transition from deathbed to the eternal fire is just a formality. If you plant the seeds of hell in your mind, they will be all that remains in the end. I guess some people think they will never become feeble, that they will maintain the power to keep the evil stuff separate from the rest of their life. But we are all enfeebled in the end.
- stallmanite 8y ago
  Did you come up with this personally and/or is there someplace I can get more? Damn
  - gerbilly 8y ago
    A famous Zen story says a very similar thing: There was once a general who asked the Zen master Hakuin:"Are there really such things as Heaven and Hell?" "What do you do for a living?" Hakuin asked him. "I'm a general." "Ha, ha, ha! What idiot asked you to be his general? You look more like a butcher to me", the Zen master teased the general. "I'll cut you to pieces!" the general angrily pulled his sword. "Here lie the gates of Hell!" said the master. "Excuse me...Please forgive my insolence.” And Hakuin said:"Here lie the gates of Heaven." Heaven and Hell aren't places that suddenly appear after death. They exist here and now. Good and evil involve just a single instant of thought, and the gates of Heaven and Hell are ready to open for you at any time. (From Zen Stories: The Staff and Shout of the Venerable Ones)

RobertoG 8y ago

First page in HN, I bet he is going to get a few more users. This "I feel guilty but they are making money" narrative thing is just genius marketing. I take my hat off to him.

DanTheManPR 8y ago
It's the perfect capstone to the story.
rb808 8y ago
Every time I get into my Porsche I'm reminded of how bad the project is.

securingsincity 8y ago

This was written last year, it should have 2017 appended

lotyrin 8y ago
Yes, I was experiencing deja-vu for half a good half paragraph before checking the date.
detaro 8y ago
and had a HN discussion back then https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15713505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15713505

roymurdock 8y ago

damn, this guy built a tool for growth hackers to make android app store spam, added gamification when it started failing, then added a pyramid MLM referral system for users to market it by word of mouth. he's obviously very smart and motivated. it's just kind of sad to me that the ad economy has grown so large that this is the best way for smart young people to make money. i doubt he really hates his product at the end of the day, it's just a catchy way to market it. if he did, he would've walked away when his partner did to freelance some more or do another startup.

kuroguro 8y ago
Yeah, hate is a strong word. Then again helping people build generic crappy apps - which seems like is most of the user base - is probably disheartening. I worked for a SEO company for about a year making SaaS tools to help "analyze keywords", "supply backlinks", "generate content" and other woo woo magic. Waking up and walking to work was fun for only the first month :/ Most of the users made crappy copy-paste websites and did whatever they could to get a better rank on search engines.
- sharemywin 8y ago
  Why not expand it add more features help people create more compelling creations.
  - mosselman 8y ago
    People who copy-paste crappy websites into life don’t lack the _tools_ to create ‘compelling creations’, they lack the will.
mettamage 8y ago
I doubt it as well as a similar story about AppyGen didn't surface too long ago on the front page (couple of months at most). That said, I do think app generators in general are a fun and cool idea. It's his target market more than anything else that makes it a spam machine.
8y ago

oconnor663 8y ago

> I couldn’t understand why users who were making a thousand dollars in ad revenue each month, didn’t upgrade their accounts, after all it only costs $25. Turns out, a lot of these users were living in countries where they couldn’t have a Visa card or PayPal account, and just couldn’t pay me even if they wanted to. I don't know if cryptocurrency is going to solve this problem, but whatever does solve it is going to generate an enormous amount of wealth.

UncleEntity 8y ago
One wonders how they get paid the ad money they earn? Simple solution: "We take the first $25 in ad revenue your app generates and you keep the rest." Complex solution: "We take 50% of the ad revenue your app generates unless you pay $25/month through outside means." ...unless they needed to create thousands of apps to make any income and 50% is cheaper than $25/app.
- wyldfire 8y ago
  > We take the first $25 in ad revenue your app generates and you keep the rest. You could invoice them for the $25 but you cannot "keep" it until/unless your service becomes the advertising network's client.

jccooper 8y ago

Anybody have an idea what the apps this thing creates are?

Quarrelsome 8y ago

this is both terrifying and enthralling. A beautiful capture of the rationale behind the creation of monster. Love it.

the_common_man 8y ago

This is from 2017

blitmap 8y ago

Okay. I ultimately liked this posting. It started out rocky because he exposed he had accomplished so much at a young age (#imverysmart). Sounded like at several times he wanted to spend money he didn't really have. I liked the reflection and how he tried several different strategies to grow revenue. And the posting itself is a good way to boost visibility.

TeMPOraL 8y ago

Holy shit. I have so mixed feelings. First of all, thank you for sharing this story. Secondly, I envy your grit and the ability to just go and sell, instead of being stuck in impostor syndrome mode. Thirdly, shame on you for building a product which sole point is to make money by destroying the Play Store. And shame on you for working on it after you realized this. Foruthly, and this is the part I don't understand - how on Earth were you able to make money on that first app of yours? And how your customers are able to repeat that? I mean, who on Earth downloads this kind of stuff? I'm very confused about this. By your description, that app is "simple app with a list of videos, targeting a specific trending niche", i.e. not much more than a YouTube playlist. So who are the people downloading cookie-cutter apps when an universal one-stop app is available?

whalesalad 8y ago
> by destroying the Play Store One of the first comments on the post is asking about whether or not the OP intends to duplicate this effort on the Apple App Store. Say what you will about Apple's walled garden but the core difference between it and the Play store is that it's designed to prevent things like this. The Play store invites this sort of thing. Kudos to the OP for capitalizing on it.
p2detar 8y ago
> So who are the people downloading cookie-cutter apps when an universal one-stop app is available? A good question that I too would like to get an answer to. He does not mention if they had an adwords campaign. He did, however, write that they made tons more apps like that. So it's the "quantity vs quality" scenario I guess. Maybe something like what Ketchapp are/were doing.