5 ms·

Here's the outrage: if the police have armored vehicles, that means that they perceive a need for armored vehicles. When officers walk past them, they are remi

by dsr_ 8y ago

Here's the outrage: if the police have armored vehicles, that means that they perceive a need for armored vehicles. When officers walk past them, they are reminded that they are needed. When officers are inside them, they feel simultaneously invulnerable and threatened -- all this armor means that someone must want to kill them. From the other side, a community that sees MRAPs going past has to believe that there's a need for armored protection for the police -- so there must be a corresponding threat from armed criminals. The affluent parts of the community perceive more of a threat, and the disadvantaged part of the community has solid evidence that the police are an occupying military force, not protection. In other words, the presence of the MRAPs creates a problem for everyone. It escalates tension.

tomschlick 8y ago
So we are talking about perception above all else? Great, but there are use cases for armored vehicles. Whether its an MRAP or a Bearcat. There are always going to be barricaded persons, hostage situations, active shooters, riots, and natural disasters that need responding to and those seem to be the best tools for the job. The goal is to get as close to the subject as possible without anyone getting hurt. From there you can control the scene and use it as a position to de-escalate. If these tools are being used inappropriately, I am all for legislation to curb that.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > So we are talking about perception above all else? Perception resulting from conscious, deliberate actions; or, viewed another way, nonverbal communication. Yes, it's key to police work.
- Fomite 8y ago
  Perception is an important thing when it comes to interacting with a community.
- dsr_ 8y ago
  The idea that first you roll up in a tank, and then you pretend that you're going to de-escalate, is inherently ludicrous. "Barricaded person": doesn't need an MRAP, they need a therapist. "Hostage situation": generally also doesn't need an MRAP, they need a specialized therapist. "Active shooter": here's note from a company that really wants to sell you training on how to deal with an active shooter -- http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/10-lessons-learned-from-the-new-fbi-study-on-active-shooters http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/10-lessons-learned-fro... -- note that even with their spin, they can't come up with any evidence that an MRAP would be helpful. "Riots" -- There's a list on Wikipedia. What percentage were caused by the police murdering people? 12 of 29 in the last ten years. "Natural disasters": don't require tanks. Heavy trucks? Rugged 4WD? More investment in firefighting equipment? Sure. Hauling around tons of armor on a vehicle with a high center of gravity? Silly.
wolfgke 8y ago
> When officers are inside them, they feel simultaneously invulnerable and threatened -- all this armor means that someone must want to kill them. And cars have airbags and seatbelts because other drivers actively want to crash onto your car?

by dsr_ 8y ago

tomschlick 8y ago

So we are talking about perception above all else? Great, but there are use cases for armored vehicles. Whether its an MRAP or a Bearcat. There are always going to be barricaded persons, hostage situations, active shooters, riots, and natural disasters that need responding to and those seem to be the best tools for the job. The goal is to get as close to the subject as possible without anyone getting hurt. From there you can control the scene and use it as a position to de-escalate. If these tools are being used inappropriately, I am all for legislation to curb that.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> So we are talking about perception above all else? Perception resulting from conscious, deliberate actions; or, viewed another way, nonverbal communication. Yes, it's key to police work.
Fomite 8y ago
Perception is an important thing when it comes to interacting with a community.
dsr_ 8y ago
The idea that first you roll up in a tank, and then you pretend that you're going to de-escalate, is inherently ludicrous. "Barricaded person": doesn't need an MRAP, they need a therapist. "Hostage situation": generally also doesn't need an MRAP, they need a specialized therapist. "Active shooter": here's note from a company that really wants to sell you training on how to deal with an active shooter -- http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/10-lessons-learned-from-the-new-fbi-study-on-active-shooters http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/10-lessons-learned-fro... -- note that even with their spin, they can't come up with any evidence that an MRAP would be helpful. "Riots" -- There's a list on Wikipedia. What percentage were caused by the police murdering people? 12 of 29 in the last ten years. "Natural disasters": don't require tanks. Heavy trucks? Rugged 4WD? More investment in firefighting equipment? Sure. Hauling around tons of armor on a vehicle with a high center of gravity? Silly.

wolfgke 8y ago

> When officers are inside them, they feel simultaneously invulnerable and threatened -- all this armor means that someone must want to kill them. And cars have airbags and seatbelts because other drivers actively want to crash onto your car?