5 ms·

Facebook has a 'black people problem,' says former employee who quit this month

22 points by SirLJ 8y ago

voyager2 8y ago
“In some buildings, there are more ‘Black Lives Matter’ posters than there are actual black people...” Those posters are divisive in and of themselves. Best to have no racially themed posters at all.
- just_myles 8y ago
  You know that wasn't his point, at all.
just_myles 8y ago
I know what he is going through. I have experienced a lot of this during my tenure working in technology (Entertainment). It's unfortunate that a company like that still hasn't been able to figure this out. As someone who studied computer science it is hard for me to recommend to the younger kids (Children of color... ok Black.) to get into technology when the prospects of them working in that sector are so low.
- commandlinefan 8y ago
  How representative do things seem to you? I seem to recall that black people were 13% of the U.S. population, so you'd expect (all other things being equal) about 1 in every 10 employees to be black. On the other hand, Asians are about 5% of the U.S. population, so you'd expect to see about 1 in 20, but everywhere I've ever worked it's been more like 18 or 19 in 20. I've never assumed that's due to prejudice, though.
  - miramardesign 8y ago
    yes, but the public at large are not an accurate sample, a more accurate sample would be computer science graduates. I imagine that the representation of compsci graduates that are afrcian american is not 13%. The same argument is used for women in tech, you can't hire people who don't exist. It starts in education.
  - jakear 8y ago
    Shouldn’t it be more about mirroring general workforce demographics than population demographics?
- mikestew 8y ago
  But what does one do? I'll admit not reading every word of TFA, but the gist I got was "FB has X% of black devs, but among FB users, blacks are Y%, where Y > X." Here's my problem as being an on-again-off-again hiring manager: there aren't any black devs to hire in the Seattle area. The only black person who wrote code that I've ever worked with since moving to Seattle 18 years ago was a guy I hired. And I've worked at Microsoft (where the UserEd person on one team was black). 18 years is a long time, but I can't say for sure that the guy I hired isn't the only black person I've even interviewed in Seattle. Now, I grew up and worked around Indianapolis, where the ratios in programming shops were about what one would expect. Microsoft in Charlotte, NC: plenty of diversity (okay, blacks) at that satellite office the three years I was there. Had a black woman as a manager, now that I think back. But Seattle, and maybe the whole west coast, man, something weird going on here. And as much as I'd love to bang on FB, my experience says that maybe it's not their fault.
  - just_myles 8y ago
    There are plenty in my circles that just can't get a foot in the door. Even having the relevant work experience and education. I have my own thoughts as to why that is but, this is not the platform to speak on that.
- mc32 8y ago
  Why wouldn't you recommend technology to black children? How is technology worse for them than say entertainment or nursing, medicine, law enforcement, teaching, etc.? What are the variables affecting the "prospects"?
  - just_myles 8y ago
    As a career I am hesitant. Given my experience and dealing with former colleagues prejudices over simple misunderstandings. A lot is assumed when you are black. Here are some things that I have experienced: - Think you are not qualified to do the job. - Think you are filling a quota. - Think you do not have a technical background. - Whenever there is a disagreement: I was seen as being aggressive, impatient, or loud (Echoes the authors sentiment). You are locked in a state of always having to prove yourself. Honestly I don't want my son to go through something like that let alone someone else. I once interviewed for a job at a local company where the hiring recruiter asked me if I was a citizen because he said I sounded foreign (What does that even mean?). I told him no that I am a local and never heard from him again. This has happened to me a few times.
    - mc32 8y ago
      That’s a shame. If I were black, I’d probably like to advocate doing what other ascendant groups have done, build from within, support from within till some parity is achieved. Now, of course, it shouldn’t have to be this way, but current efforts don’t seem to be working as expected. It’s imperative that every American have an opportunity to succeed, if we are going to remain an innovative and vibrant economy. We already rely heavily, maybe too much on imported (skilled) labor when we have so much available locally, domestically, but we’re not developing it from cradle to contributor to society very well. So this is a bummer.
      - ikeyany 8y ago
        If you were black you probably wouldn't give a shit about tech to the point of being an advocate. Statistically speaking, you wouldn't have a whole different perspective on what issues are important enough to pursue.
- lawnchair_larry 8y ago
  That’s silly and dangerous. The prospects of a black CS grad getting a job are extremely high. Why wouldn’t it be?
nudpiedo 8y ago
I disagree with this person's opinion: You can build something that works, that people want to use, but you can’t actually make all the right decisions if among the builders there’s not enough diversity and perspective I thought the point of diversity was about giving equalty of opportunities to all folks indepndently of gender, race, ideas, etc, not about achieving some sort of colorful mastermind. And why can't the current staff make all the right decissions? Is the current staff flawed in some aspect that only diversity can fix? I thought empathy is a common human trait, and actually many decissions at facbook are data-driven or CEO driven (and a CEO is just a corporative authority). In some buildings, there are more ‘Black Lives Matter’ posters than there are actual black people... Is even this politcal organization even representative of that community? Perhaps enforced diversity politics instead of meritocracy is the reason why Facebook has been lacking recently. I have no data on diversity beign good or bad; although I think this "diversity" topic is an opinable political posture. I hope everyone understands that my point is that there are several claims repeated over and over without any justification...
- crazy8 8y ago
  > I thought the point of diversity was about giving equalty of opportunities to all folks indepndently of gender, race, ideas, etc, not about achieving some sort of colorful mastermind. That's where you are wrong. To liberals, diversity is equal outcome, not equal opportunity.
  - skj 8y ago
    That is incorrect. It's more like because equal opportunity is so difficult, people target equal outcome as a second best. I (decidedly liberal) only value equal opportunity. But since opportunity appears to be hereditary, an equal outcome can, over time, equalize opportunity. It sure would be nice to skip that first step, and I think it's probably not going to turn out effective for a number of reasons. I don't know what would be more effective.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > To liberals, diversity is equal outcome, not equal opportunity. Opportunity today is largely outcome acheived through yesterday.
SirLJ 8y ago
“On a personal note, at least two or three times a day, every day, a colleague at MPK [Facebook headquarters in Menlo Park] will look directly at me and tap or hold their wallet or shove their hands down their pocket to clutch it tightly until I pass,” Luckie wrote.
- tropdrop 8y ago
  Daily enduring something like that from people you work with has to be depressing. Poor guy.
- vfulco2 8y ago
  I don't believe this for a minute given what I have heard from FB employees about the place.
  - Fins 8y ago
    As much as I like to pile on FB (and FB, like the rest of SV is full of hypocritical dicks), this does sound highly unlikely.
  - ergothus 8y ago
    Why not? I staunchly believe that race and gender are not indicators of value, capability, or personality...but my subconscious acts on biases it has learned over decades from everyone around me, and it will take more than rational thought to alter who I find threatening, "slow", smug, timid or other decisions based on ephemeral qualities. These biases are difficult to identify in the moment when you are the one doing them rarely, but far more noticeable if they are directed towards you by many. That doesnt mean the author is correct, but I certainly find the issue plausible.
User23 8y ago
Facebook has a white people problem too. Among US employees white people are grossly underrepresented at only 47.6%[1] while they are 72.4% of the population according to the latest census[2]. If these numbers were for any other race it would be front page news. [1]https://www.facebook.com/careers/diversity-report https://www.facebook.com/careers/diversity-report [2]https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/...
- Traster 8y ago
  To do the comparison you're attempting to do, surely you need to get data that excludes employees who are currently here on a visa. It would seem insane to criticize facebook for not reflecting US demographics when quite simply it's not hire from the US.

22 points by SirLJ 8y ago

“In some buildings, there are more ‘Black Lives Matter’ posters than there are actual black people...” Those posters are divisive in and of themselves. Best to have no racially themed posters at all.

just_myles 8y ago
You know that wasn't his point, at all.

just_myles 8y ago

I know what he is going through. I have experienced a lot of this during my tenure working in technology (Entertainment). It's unfortunate that a company like that still hasn't been able to figure this out. As someone who studied computer science it is hard for me to recommend to the younger kids (Children of color... ok Black.) to get into technology when the prospects of them working in that sector are so low.

commandlinefan 8y ago
How representative do things seem to you? I seem to recall that black people were 13% of the U.S. population, so you'd expect (all other things being equal) about 1 in every 10 employees to be black. On the other hand, Asians are about 5% of the U.S. population, so you'd expect to see about 1 in 20, but everywhere I've ever worked it's been more like 18 or 19 in 20. I've never assumed that's due to prejudice, though.
- miramardesign 8y ago
  yes, but the public at large are not an accurate sample, a more accurate sample would be computer science graduates. I imagine that the representation of compsci graduates that are afrcian american is not 13%. The same argument is used for women in tech, you can't hire people who don't exist. It starts in education.
- jakear 8y ago
  Shouldn’t it be more about mirroring general workforce demographics than population demographics?
mikestew 8y ago
But what does one do? I'll admit not reading every word of TFA, but the gist I got was "FB has X% of black devs, but among FB users, blacks are Y%, where Y > X." Here's my problem as being an on-again-off-again hiring manager: there aren't any black devs to hire in the Seattle area. The only black person who wrote code that I've ever worked with since moving to Seattle 18 years ago was a guy I hired. And I've worked at Microsoft (where the UserEd person on one team was black). 18 years is a long time, but I can't say for sure that the guy I hired isn't the only black person I've even interviewed in Seattle. Now, I grew up and worked around Indianapolis, where the ratios in programming shops were about what one would expect. Microsoft in Charlotte, NC: plenty of diversity (okay, blacks) at that satellite office the three years I was there. Had a black woman as a manager, now that I think back. But Seattle, and maybe the whole west coast, man, something weird going on here. And as much as I'd love to bang on FB, my experience says that maybe it's not their fault.
- just_myles 8y ago
  There are plenty in my circles that just can't get a foot in the door. Even having the relevant work experience and education. I have my own thoughts as to why that is but, this is not the platform to speak on that.
mc32 8y ago
Why wouldn't you recommend technology to black children? How is technology worse for them than say entertainment or nursing, medicine, law enforcement, teaching, etc.? What are the variables affecting the "prospects"?
- just_myles 8y ago
  As a career I am hesitant. Given my experience and dealing with former colleagues prejudices over simple misunderstandings. A lot is assumed when you are black. Here are some things that I have experienced: - Think you are not qualified to do the job. - Think you are filling a quota. - Think you do not have a technical background. - Whenever there is a disagreement: I was seen as being aggressive, impatient, or loud (Echoes the authors sentiment). You are locked in a state of always having to prove yourself. Honestly I don't want my son to go through something like that let alone someone else. I once interviewed for a job at a local company where the hiring recruiter asked me if I was a citizen because he said I sounded foreign (What does that even mean?). I told him no that I am a local and never heard from him again. This has happened to me a few times.
  - mc32 8y ago
    That’s a shame. If I were black, I’d probably like to advocate doing what other ascendant groups have done, build from within, support from within till some parity is achieved. Now, of course, it shouldn’t have to be this way, but current efforts don’t seem to be working as expected. It’s imperative that every American have an opportunity to succeed, if we are going to remain an innovative and vibrant economy. We already rely heavily, maybe too much on imported (skilled) labor when we have so much available locally, domestically, but we’re not developing it from cradle to contributor to society very well. So this is a bummer.
    - ikeyany 8y ago
      If you were black you probably wouldn't give a shit about tech to the point of being an advocate. Statistically speaking, you wouldn't have a whole different perspective on what issues are important enough to pursue.
lawnchair_larry 8y ago
That’s silly and dangerous. The prospects of a black CS grad getting a job are extremely high. Why wouldn’t it be?

nudpiedo 8y ago

I disagree with this person's opinion: You can build something that works, that people want to use, but you can’t actually make all the right decisions if among the builders there’s not enough diversity and perspective I thought the point of diversity was about giving equalty of opportunities to all folks indepndently of gender, race, ideas, etc, not about achieving some sort of colorful mastermind. And why can't the current staff make all the right decissions? Is the current staff flawed in some aspect that only diversity can fix? I thought empathy is a common human trait, and actually many decissions at facbook are data-driven or CEO driven (and a CEO is just a corporative authority). In some buildings, there are more ‘Black Lives Matter’ posters than there are actual black people... Is even this politcal organization even representative of that community? Perhaps enforced diversity politics instead of meritocracy is the reason why Facebook has been lacking recently. I have no data on diversity beign good or bad; although I think this "diversity" topic is an opinable political posture. I hope everyone understands that my point is that there are several claims repeated over and over without any justification...

crazy8 8y ago
> I thought the point of diversity was about giving equalty of opportunities to all folks indepndently of gender, race, ideas, etc, not about achieving some sort of colorful mastermind. That's where you are wrong. To liberals, diversity is equal outcome, not equal opportunity.
- skj 8y ago
  That is incorrect. It's more like because equal opportunity is so difficult, people target equal outcome as a second best. I (decidedly liberal) only value equal opportunity. But since opportunity appears to be hereditary, an equal outcome can, over time, equalize opportunity. It sure would be nice to skip that first step, and I think it's probably not going to turn out effective for a number of reasons. I don't know what would be more effective.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > To liberals, diversity is equal outcome, not equal opportunity. Opportunity today is largely outcome acheived through yesterday.

SirLJ 8y ago

“On a personal note, at least two or three times a day, every day, a colleague at MPK [Facebook headquarters in Menlo Park] will look directly at me and tap or hold their wallet or shove their hands down their pocket to clutch it tightly until I pass,” Luckie wrote.

tropdrop 8y ago
Daily enduring something like that from people you work with has to be depressing. Poor guy.
vfulco2 8y ago
I don't believe this for a minute given what I have heard from FB employees about the place.
- Fins 8y ago
  As much as I like to pile on FB (and FB, like the rest of SV is full of hypocritical dicks), this does sound highly unlikely.
- ergothus 8y ago
  Why not? I staunchly believe that race and gender are not indicators of value, capability, or personality...but my subconscious acts on biases it has learned over decades from everyone around me, and it will take more than rational thought to alter who I find threatening, "slow", smug, timid or other decisions based on ephemeral qualities. These biases are difficult to identify in the moment when you are the one doing them rarely, but far more noticeable if they are directed towards you by many. That doesnt mean the author is correct, but I certainly find the issue plausible.

User23 8y ago

Facebook has a white people problem too. Among US employees white people are grossly underrepresented at only 47.6%[1] while they are 72.4% of the population according to the latest census[2]. If these numbers were for any other race it would be front page news. [1]https://www.facebook.com/careers/diversity-report https://www.facebook.com/careers/diversity-report [2]https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/...

Traster 8y ago
To do the comparison you're attempting to do, surely you need to get data that excludes employees who are currently here on a visa. It would seem insane to criticize facebook for not reflecting US demographics when quite simply it's not hire from the US.