4 ms·

> While I get that they "look scary" to some people . That's more than enough reason not to deploy them. It changes "we're here to serve and protect" to "we w

> While I get that they "look scary" to some people . That's more than enough reason not to deploy them. It changes "we're here to serve and protect" to "we will crush you if you step out of line".

tomschlick 8y ago
> That's more than enough reason not to deploy them. No it's not. These vehicles can, and have saved lives. I have yet to hear of an MRAP killing someone in the US. > "we will crush you if you step out of line" Better wording would be "if you throw rocks or shoot at us we are still going to arrest you".
- markdown 8y ago
  > These vehicles can, and have saved lives. Citation needed. Police all over the world do their jobs without these tanks. Is there any data proving crime goes down in cities where they are deployed? Is there any data proving that less lives are lost when these tanks are deployed in US cities? > Better wording would be "if you throw rocks or shoot at us we are still going to arrest you". People have been throwing rocks at and shooting at US police for two centuries. How does having a tank help in arrests? Officers can't arrest from inside the tank. They have to get out of it and approach on foot. How is this different from stepping out from behind a building or any other vehicle and approaching on foot? They could drive to the scene in a yellow school bus and the result would be the same. They have to exit the bus and approach on foot.
  - x220 8y ago
    You could look up videos on YouTube of police deploying an AMRAP to an area with an active shooter (a shooter with military-grade rifles and armor) and using it for cover. That's how they save lives.
  - tomschlick 8y ago
    > Citation needed. Several active shooter situations where they need to retrieve downed officers / civilians without exposing the rescue team to gunfire. Most recently in the Pittsburgh shooting it was reported they used an armored vehicle to get to injured officers outside. > Police all over the world do their jobs without these tanks. First of all they are not tanks. They have no offensive capabilities so they would be classified as armored personnel carriers. Second, these exist all over the world, here are some image results: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=european+riot+vehicle&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fc8.alamy.com%2Fcomp%2FEH1TYX%2Fpsni-armoured-vehicles-set-alight-by-petrol-bombs-during-riots-in-EH1TYX.jpg https://duckduckgo.com/?q=european+riot+vehicle&t=ffab&iar=i... > People have been throwing rocks at and shooting at US police for two centuries. How does having a tank help in arrests? Allows officers to take cover behind it while the vehicle moves forward. When it reaches the people throwing rocks they can move to effect the arrest. For shootings it allows them to much closer to barricaded subjects and make sure they cant escape / provides a platform to negotiate peaceful surrender.
    - prepend 8y ago
      Would you please add a link to your narrative description of a citation?
josho 8y ago
Here's a great example of how the police have failed to live up to 'serve and protect'. Here is an EU police car. Note it's bright colours to be easily spotted. Dare I say this car looks friendly. http://cdn1.blog.powerblocktv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Screen-Shot-2012-10-25-at-1.23.12-PM.png http://cdn1.blog.powerblocktv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10... Now, here's a US police _interceptor_. The front grill looks like it's ready to ram me. http://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2011-Ford-Taurus-Police-Interceptor.jpg http://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2011-F... The MRAP's to your point only exacerbate existing problems in the US police state. I don't see why the police (and some folks here) can't see that.
- all2 8y ago
  That grill is designed for ramming, shoving, and a hammer-head maneuver that destabilizes the target vehicle. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIT_maneuver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIT_maneuver [1] https://youtu.be/OjvBYk8_8HI?t=19 https://youtu.be/OjvBYk8_8HI?t=19
  - discordance 8y ago
    It's pretty disconcerting watching that video. The news and commentary make it feel i'm watching a sports hunting game.
  - DC-3 8y ago
    The UK police manage to PIT vehicles (and, in a recent turn of events, mopeds) without needing to fit metalwork to their police cars.
    - all2 8y ago
      What does the body damage look like?
- culot 8y ago
  Wouldn't a Ford Focus wagon be limiting for many police duties in the US? Police have to be able to handle many rough situations, so a vehicle designed with utilitarian prowess should be essential for that job. Maybe it could get a cute paint job like the Focus and split the difference?

> While I get that they "look scary" to some people . That's more than enough reason not to deploy them. It changes "we're here to serve and protect" to "we will crush you if you step out of line".

tomschlick 8y ago

> That's more than enough reason not to deploy them. No it's not. These vehicles can, and have saved lives. I have yet to hear of an MRAP killing someone in the US. > "we will crush you if you step out of line" Better wording would be "if you throw rocks or shoot at us we are still going to arrest you".

markdown 8y ago
> These vehicles can, and have saved lives. Citation needed. Police all over the world do their jobs without these tanks. Is there any data proving crime goes down in cities where they are deployed? Is there any data proving that less lives are lost when these tanks are deployed in US cities? > Better wording would be "if you throw rocks or shoot at us we are still going to arrest you". People have been throwing rocks at and shooting at US police for two centuries. How does having a tank help in arrests? Officers can't arrest from inside the tank. They have to get out of it and approach on foot. How is this different from stepping out from behind a building or any other vehicle and approaching on foot? They could drive to the scene in a yellow school bus and the result would be the same. They have to exit the bus and approach on foot.
- x220 8y ago
  You could look up videos on YouTube of police deploying an AMRAP to an area with an active shooter (a shooter with military-grade rifles and armor) and using it for cover. That's how they save lives.
- tomschlick 8y ago
  > Citation needed. Several active shooter situations where they need to retrieve downed officers / civilians without exposing the rescue team to gunfire. Most recently in the Pittsburgh shooting it was reported they used an armored vehicle to get to injured officers outside. > Police all over the world do their jobs without these tanks. First of all they are not tanks. They have no offensive capabilities so they would be classified as armored personnel carriers. Second, these exist all over the world, here are some image results: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=european+riot+vehicle&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fc8.alamy.com%2Fcomp%2FEH1TYX%2Fpsni-armoured-vehicles-set-alight-by-petrol-bombs-during-riots-in-EH1TYX.jpg https://duckduckgo.com/?q=european+riot+vehicle&t=ffab&iar=i... > People have been throwing rocks at and shooting at US police for two centuries. How does having a tank help in arrests? Allows officers to take cover behind it while the vehicle moves forward. When it reaches the people throwing rocks they can move to effect the arrest. For shootings it allows them to much closer to barricaded subjects and make sure they cant escape / provides a platform to negotiate peaceful surrender.
  - prepend 8y ago
    Would you please add a link to your narrative description of a citation?

josho 8y ago

Here's a great example of how the police have failed to live up to 'serve and protect'. Here is an EU police car. Note it's bright colours to be easily spotted. Dare I say this car looks friendly. http://cdn1.blog.powerblocktv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Screen-Shot-2012-10-25-at-1.23.12-PM.png http://cdn1.blog.powerblocktv.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10... Now, here's a US police _interceptor_. The front grill looks like it's ready to ram me. http://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2011-Ford-Taurus-Police-Interceptor.jpg http://s3.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2011-F... The MRAP's to your point only exacerbate existing problems in the US police state. I don't see why the police (and some folks here) can't see that.

all2 8y ago
That grill is designed for ramming, shoving, and a hammer-head maneuver that destabilizes the target vehicle. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIT_maneuver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIT_maneuver [1] https://youtu.be/OjvBYk8_8HI?t=19 https://youtu.be/OjvBYk8_8HI?t=19
- discordance 8y ago
  It's pretty disconcerting watching that video. The news and commentary make it feel i'm watching a sports hunting game.
- DC-3 8y ago
  The UK police manage to PIT vehicles (and, in a recent turn of events, mopeds) without needing to fit metalwork to their police cars.
  - all2 8y ago
    What does the body damage look like?
culot 8y ago
Wouldn't a Ford Focus wagon be limiting for many police duties in the US? Police have to be able to handle many rough situations, so a vehicle designed with utilitarian prowess should be essential for that job. Maybe it could get a cute paint job like the Focus and split the difference?