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In the UK there definitely is a distinction between the terms parliament and government. Parliament refers to the entire body of the houses of commons and lord

by nicky0 8y ago

In the UK there definitely is a distinction between the terms parliament and government. Parliament refers to the entire body of the houses of commons and lords. Gorverment refers to the executive (prime minister, cabinet & other ministers) which is can include people who are not members of parliament.

Veen 8y ago
Yes, if you define "government" as "executive", then parliament isn't the government. Pettifogging about definitions isn't helpful when the point of the comment was to emphasize that the distinction is less clear in the UK than the US. Besides which your definition excludes the entire civil service, which is part of the government. It also excludes the Queen, who is, technically, the executive, even if not in practice. Also, if you define the executive as the PM, cabinet, and other ministers, then they are all members of parliament even when they aren't Members of Parliament (MPs). The ones who aren't members of the House of Commons (MPs) are members of the House of Lords, which is part of Parliament. There are rare cases of people not in either house being brought into the Cabinet, but that hasn't happened since the First World War, I believe. Edit: Upon reflection, this whole conversation revolves around whether we say "government" or "Government". We're both right. I'm describing the "government". You're describing the "Government".
- nicky0 8y ago
  Yes fair enough. I was using the term government as it is understood in the UK. I'm not "pettifogging" and your G/g distinction is not accurate. It is common in Britain to use small g. For example this news article which also an example of the proper usage, and clear distinction between, the terms parliament and government. > [Phillip Hammond] said if the government loses the vote in parliament on 11 December, it would be in “uncharted political territory”. More than half of backbench Tory MPs who are not on the government payroll have committed to voting down the deal. > Hammond said cabinet ministers would examine the reasons why MPs had voted against the deal and then try to forge consensus. “We will then have to sit down as a cabinet and a government and decide where to go on the basis of the vote, what we’ve seen in the vote and who has voted in which way because clearly we live in a democracy, parliament is sovereign,” he said." [1] 1: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/28/chancellor-uk-worse-off-brexit-scenarios-philip-hammond https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/28/chancellor-...
- nicky0 8y ago
  Another quote, from Tony Blair, I saw today.... felt is should go here: "For the first time in my political memory, parliament is operating like a shadow government. It has taken effective charge of the process surrounding Brexit through the Grieve amendment, ensuring that all options can be voted upon. It has asserted itself with a vigour and clarity of purpose frankly missing from the actual government. It is articulating the different outcomes with a blatant disregard for the government mantra that it is this deal or no deal. I am heartily thankful that parliament is doing so. There is as much leadership on the back benches as on the front. At a moment of supreme importance for the nation, with so much at stake and such bitter divisions in the population, they’re doing what I always hoped they would do: behave like leaders, recognising that at this time, party whips can’t matter more than genuine appreciation of where the national interest lies."

by nicky0 8y ago

Veen 8y ago

Yes, if you define "government" as "executive", then parliament isn't the government. Pettifogging about definitions isn't helpful when the point of the comment was to emphasize that the distinction is less clear in the UK than the US. Besides which your definition excludes the entire civil service, which is part of the government. It also excludes the Queen, who is, technically, the executive, even if not in practice. Also, if you define the executive as the PM, cabinet, and other ministers, then they are all members of parliament even when they aren't Members of Parliament (MPs). The ones who aren't members of the House of Commons (MPs) are members of the House of Lords, which is part of Parliament. There are rare cases of people not in either house being brought into the Cabinet, but that hasn't happened since the First World War, I believe. Edit: Upon reflection, this whole conversation revolves around whether we say "government" or "Government". We're both right. I'm describing the "government". You're describing the "Government".

nicky0 8y ago
Yes fair enough. I was using the term government as it is understood in the UK. I'm not "pettifogging" and your G/g distinction is not accurate. It is common in Britain to use small g. For example this news article which also an example of the proper usage, and clear distinction between, the terms parliament and government. > [Phillip Hammond] said if the government loses the vote in parliament on 11 December, it would be in “uncharted political territory”. More than half of backbench Tory MPs who are not on the government payroll have committed to voting down the deal. > Hammond said cabinet ministers would examine the reasons why MPs had voted against the deal and then try to forge consensus. “We will then have to sit down as a cabinet and a government and decide where to go on the basis of the vote, what we’ve seen in the vote and who has voted in which way because clearly we live in a democracy, parliament is sovereign,” he said." [1] 1: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/28/chancellor-uk-worse-off-brexit-scenarios-philip-hammond https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/28/chancellor-...
nicky0 8y ago
Another quote, from Tony Blair, I saw today.... felt is should go here: "For the first time in my political memory, parliament is operating like a shadow government. It has taken effective charge of the process surrounding Brexit through the Grieve amendment, ensuring that all options can be voted upon. It has asserted itself with a vigour and clarity of purpose frankly missing from the actual government. It is articulating the different outcomes with a blatant disregard for the government mantra that it is this deal or no deal. I am heartily thankful that parliament is doing so. There is as much leadership on the back benches as on the front. At a moment of supreme importance for the nation, with so much at stake and such bitter divisions in the population, they’re doing what I always hoped they would do: behave like leaders, recognising that at this time, party whips can’t matter more than genuine appreciation of where the national interest lies."