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Perhaps concerns about 'the over-militarization of police' is essentially a concern for situations where an extreme power imbalance exists between police and ci
by electrograv 8y ago
Perhaps concerns about 'the over-militarization of police' is essentially a concern for situations where an extreme power imbalance exists between police and civilians, creating a much higher risk of totalitarian abuse and oppression by police in situations where the police force in question becomes corrupt or 'bad' in some way. (Disclaimer: I'm not making an anti-LEO argument; quite the contrary, I'm very pro-LEO, and in many cases I see, LEOs are disrespected very unfairly.)
The problem isn't where police are good; the point is to design a system that inherently protects against abuse by the very small percentage of LEOs that do become corrupt and abuse their special powers that civilians do not have. How do we protect against this?
Perhaps the simplest and most robust way to protect against this abuse is simply to limit the magnitude of power imbalance between the government and the people! One could argue that this principle applies to physically defensive equipment as much as it does to computer and information systems, and any other mode of power. Additionally, this notion is encoded into our country's constitution at least in some ways.
Therefore, this leads to the question: Can a civilian buy an MRAP? If so, I think your argument works very well -- especially since they're defensive machines. If a civilian cannot buy one though, I could see the argument against police using them gaining favor.
- tomschlick 8y ago> Can a civilian buy an MRAP? If so, I think your argument works very well Yes you can if you found one for sale (not sure what that market looks like). Civilians can also buy decommissioned tanks, Two ton trucks, humvees, etc.
- electrograv 8y agoIn that case, I'm definitely convinced to your side of the argument! If a civilian can buy it, I see no reason why a police force shouldn't be able to as well. That said, I'd love to hear any counter-arguments to this notion, if they exist.
- ssully 8y agoThe counter argument would be police departments rarely buy this equipment - it's given to them as part of a program between the Pentagon and law enforcement. They get the vehicles (and lots of other military grade equipment) for a huge discount or free. There is also the fact that even if a civilian could technically buy one, it's not really feasible to actually do so.
- wolfgke 8y ago> The counter argument would be police departments rarely buy this equipment - it's given to them as part of a program between the Pentagon and law enforcement. They get the vehicles (and lots of other military grade equipment) for a huge discount or free. > There is also the fact that even if a civilian could technically buy one, it's not really feasible to actually do so. Keep in mind that these vehicles were originally bought by the Pentagon using civilians' money (tax money). So far for feasibility.
- omnimus 8y agoWell in USA civilians can buy automatic rifles and high caliber armor piercing sniper rifles... that does not necessary mean that its a good idea.
- all2 8y agoIt is an excellent idea. An armed populous is an excellent deterrent of tyranny. And with the way the US is headed, an armed populous may be the only thing that stands between freedom and absolute tyranny.
- 51lver 8y agoUpvoting for historical reasons.
- penagwin 8y agoNitpick: you can buy automatic rifles made before 1986 (might be off on the date but you get the idea). You can't go buy a brand new automatic. * you can however buy a modern rifle that's made to have its automatic mode disabled, but my understanding is that it's trivial to modify to become automatic (but it will no longer be legal)
- simplify 8y agoI would add the question of, can a civilian buy it and use it on the streets? Just owning one in a garage doesn't really mean anything.
- tomschlick 8y agoI have personally seen Humvee's driving on the roads so I dont see why not. Basically an MRAP is just a big truck so as long as it didn't break any traffic laws (too wide, too heavy, etc) then I'd assume its fine. Would depend per state though.
- Multicomp 8y agoAnecdote from 6 months ago: Humvees are often sold without title for $4K to $8K in GA. Titled vehicles (the ones that can legally drive on public roads) go for $22k for a beater on up.
- AlexCoventry 8y agoWhy the huge disparity? Is it that hard to get them title?
- gpvos 8y agoLEO = law enforcement officer (not Low Earth Orbit)
- manigandham 8y agoCivilians can buy heavily armored vehicles, yes. They can also buy military vehicles, provided they are certified (like not carrying weapons) but it is definitely possible to be rolling around in a MRAP style machine completely legally.
- sjg007 8y agoHmm.. are you sure? Don't they have to be street legal to drive on the street? You can probably buy one to drive on private land but that's about it.
- tomschlick 8y agoI don't see how an MRAP would be any less street legal than one of those large dump trucks. At worst you would need a CDL based on the weight but probably not in most states.
- manigandham 8y agoYes, and they can be. It's really about what certifications you get regarding weapons, weight and noise, but it completely possible.
- int_19h 8y agoYou can buy armored vehicles with many kinds of weapons, too. But then you'll need to register them as destructive devices with ATF, pay the NFA tax etc. Look up "The Big Sandy Shoot" on YouTube. All vehicles and artillery pieces you see there are privately owned.