4 ms·

They lost me at "social justice experts" and "toxic masculinity".

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Pfhreak 8y ago
Why? Both of those terms have definitions based in rational discourse, but they are often misunderstood. E.g. "toxic masculinity" does not mean that masculinity is toxic, it means there's a subset of masculine behaviors that can be toxic when over-represented. If reading the term 'toxic masculinity' is enough to cause you to disengage, I'd encourage you to take a moment and understand why that just happened.
- belorn 8y ago
  Toxic masculinity get judged based on the meaning it express as words. Languages in the end is all about expressing meaning. If we talk about toxic Muslims as the subset of terrorist behavior, then most people would still see it as an generalization that invoke a expression of racisms and hate. Lumping together all Muslims, only to then say "Its a misunderstanding, I only meant this small subset that is toxic among Muslims" don't work. Does not work for racism, and it does not work for sexism either. The term toxic masculinity will always seem like veiled hatred against men, and no amount of "that is only a misinterpretation ..." will change that.
  - DonHopkins 8y ago
    So whenever anybody mentions "toxic food", you jump to the conclusion that they're saying all food is toxic? When somebody warns you about eating toxic food like Romaine lettuce, do you assume they hate all food? Or do you go out of your way to eat Romaine lettuce just to spite them, like so many people who disengage from rational discourse, thump their chests, and grandstand to defend all men from the perceived slight of being called toxic?
    - belorn 8y ago
      That is silly. Toxicity as a word originated from venom and is decades older than when the feminist movement started to use it to describe other human people in order to dehumanize and spread hate. But lets go to a political term that currently is seen in the news with wild disagreeing views: the illegal immigrant. The US administration defines this as only being about the subgroup of immigrant that has committed a crime. They see no problem talking about deport all those illegal immigrants, how the illegal immigrants are a drain on the country, and how many of the illegal immigrants are rapists and gang members. And yet when the opposition object they are all talking about immigrants and how immigrants are important for the country and economy. How among immigrants there are very few rapists and gang members, and how the administration are racist when they make general statements about immigrants. And in return the administration accuse the opposition for disengaging from rational discourse, thumping their chests, and grandstanding to defend all immigrants from the perceived slight of being called rapists and gang members. If you want rational discourse then start by using language that do not dehumanize people. Second step is to avoid large generalization that is only veiled hatred. Only then is there even a possibility for rational discourse.
trhway 8y ago
>"toxic masculinity" If your breadth/etc contains higher than allowed testosterone you'll be fined and made to take medication in order to control those extremely toxic traits: mas·cu·lin·i·ty /ˌmaskyəˈlinədē/ noun noun: masculinity; plural noun: masculinities possession of the qualities traditionally associated with men. "handsome, muscled, and driven, he's a prime example of masculinity" synonyms: virility, manliness, maleness, machismo, vigor, strength, muscularity, ruggedness, robustness; [informal] testosterone

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

Why? Both of those terms have definitions based in rational discourse, but they are often misunderstood. E.g. "toxic masculinity" does not mean that masculinity is toxic, it means there's a subset of masculine behaviors that can be toxic when over-represented. If reading the term 'toxic masculinity' is enough to cause you to disengage, I'd encourage you to take a moment and understand why that just happened.

belorn 8y ago
Toxic masculinity get judged based on the meaning it express as words. Languages in the end is all about expressing meaning. If we talk about toxic Muslims as the subset of terrorist behavior, then most people would still see it as an generalization that invoke a expression of racisms and hate. Lumping together all Muslims, only to then say "Its a misunderstanding, I only meant this small subset that is toxic among Muslims" don't work. Does not work for racism, and it does not work for sexism either. The term toxic masculinity will always seem like veiled hatred against men, and no amount of "that is only a misinterpretation ..." will change that.
- DonHopkins 8y ago
  So whenever anybody mentions "toxic food", you jump to the conclusion that they're saying all food is toxic? When somebody warns you about eating toxic food like Romaine lettuce, do you assume they hate all food? Or do you go out of your way to eat Romaine lettuce just to spite them, like so many people who disengage from rational discourse, thump their chests, and grandstand to defend all men from the perceived slight of being called toxic?
  - belorn 8y ago
    That is silly. Toxicity as a word originated from venom and is decades older than when the feminist movement started to use it to describe other human people in order to dehumanize and spread hate. But lets go to a political term that currently is seen in the news with wild disagreeing views: the illegal immigrant. The US administration defines this as only being about the subgroup of immigrant that has committed a crime. They see no problem talking about deport all those illegal immigrants, how the illegal immigrants are a drain on the country, and how many of the illegal immigrants are rapists and gang members. And yet when the opposition object they are all talking about immigrants and how immigrants are important for the country and economy. How among immigrants there are very few rapists and gang members, and how the administration are racist when they make general statements about immigrants. And in return the administration accuse the opposition for disengaging from rational discourse, thumping their chests, and grandstanding to defend all immigrants from the perceived slight of being called rapists and gang members. If you want rational discourse then start by using language that do not dehumanize people. Second step is to avoid large generalization that is only veiled hatred. Only then is there even a possibility for rational discourse.

trhway 8y ago

>"toxic masculinity" If your breadth/etc contains higher than allowed testosterone you'll be fined and made to take medication in order to control those extremely toxic traits: mas·cu·lin·i·ty /ˌmaskyəˈlinədē/ noun noun: masculinity; plural noun: masculinities possession of the qualities traditionally associated with men. "handsome, muscled, and driven, he's a prime example of masculinity" synonyms: virility, manliness, maleness, machismo, vigor, strength, muscularity, ruggedness, robustness; [informal] testosterone