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Congestion Pricing Was Unpopular in Stockholm – Until People Saw It in Action

22 points by oftenwrong 8y ago

kungtotte 8y ago
I think they are overlooking a very important point, and that is public transportation costs at the same time. The Stockholm region is divided into three public transit zones, and you have to pay for each zone you cross. So travelling across town would cost you three coupons, but going a few stops would just be one coupon. The problem was you pay based on how many zones you travel in, not distance. So if you took a subway two stops and crossed a boundary: bam! Two coupons. When they introduced congestion charges they also imposed a "one coupon" rule: you never had to pay for more than one coupon. So public transit became a lot more attractive over night at the same time that cars got more expensive. Small wonder that people switched. Now they've gone back to three coupons though... And anecdotally: the inner city feels just as congested now as it did before the charges.
kpil 8y ago
That's bullshit. What could we do? No political party were seriously against it, and it's not a huge question to form a new political party around. They did a 'trial run' after the investment which I guess was to make it look more democratic, and there was a public referendum which I actually believe was not in favor, but ignored. (Or was it in favor by only the 20% living inside the toll gates where allowed to vote, and the surrounding 14 regions arranged their own ignored referendums. They spent a bizarre amount on implementing this, basically paying IBM the complete development cost for a plate reading system but gained no ownership rights into the product, simultaneously implemented a radio based system that was later ditched, hired hundreds if not thousands of people working with the billing and help desks (so how automatic was it), and campaigning on how good this is for the society. The cost for adding 20 something camera based toll gates were almost half of the cost of building a 5 km long tunnel that was finished a few years before and constitutes about a quarter of an incomplete ring road. 3 billion SEK compared to 6 billion SEK. ($340m vs 680m) The incomes did not cover the running costs the first years and I can't find any facts on if it's actually covering it's amortized costs now. Coincidentally, a similarly unloved project in Gothenburg to build a relatively unnecessary train tunnel to huge costs DID actually spawn a new political party that gained 20% of the votes. Maybe there's hope.

22 points by oftenwrong 8y ago

I think they are overlooking a very important point, and that is public transportation costs at the same time. The Stockholm region is divided into three public transit zones, and you have to pay for each zone you cross. So travelling across town would cost you three coupons, but going a few stops would just be one coupon. The problem was you pay based on how many zones you travel in, not distance. So if you took a subway two stops and crossed a boundary: bam! Two coupons. When they introduced congestion charges they also imposed a "one coupon" rule: you never had to pay for more than one coupon. So public transit became a lot more attractive over night at the same time that cars got more expensive. Small wonder that people switched. Now they've gone back to three coupons though... And anecdotally: the inner city feels just as congested now as it did before the charges.

kpil 8y ago

That's bullshit. What could we do? No political party were seriously against it, and it's not a huge question to form a new political party around. They did a 'trial run' after the investment which I guess was to make it look more democratic, and there was a public referendum which I actually believe was not in favor, but ignored. (Or was it in favor by only the 20% living inside the toll gates where allowed to vote, and the surrounding 14 regions arranged their own ignored referendums. They spent a bizarre amount on implementing this, basically paying IBM the complete development cost for a plate reading system but gained no ownership rights into the product, simultaneously implemented a radio based system that was later ditched, hired hundreds if not thousands of people working with the billing and help desks (so how automatic was it), and campaigning on how good this is for the society. The cost for adding 20 something camera based toll gates were almost half of the cost of building a 5 km long tunnel that was finished a few years before and constitutes about a quarter of an incomplete ring road. 3 billion SEK compared to 6 billion SEK. ($340m vs 680m) The incomes did not cover the running costs the first years and I can't find any facts on if it's actually covering it's amortized costs now. Coincidentally, a similarly unloved project in Gothenburg to build a relatively unnecessary train tunnel to huge costs DID actually spawn a new political party that gained 20% of the votes. Maybe there's hope.