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Here in the UK, about 1000 years ago, the French invaded and took over, siezing control of the (basically German) population by replacing the top level of socie

by shubb 8y ago

Here in the UK, about 1000 years ago, the French invaded and took over, siezing control of the (basically German) population by replacing the top level of society. Suddely, the lords were French and the serfs were German. 1000 years later, you can predict someones socio-economic level by surname. French surnames do better than German ones. Surnames linked by blood to royalty do better than both. 1000 years. Lack of social mobility overrides genetics? [I'm sure you can do better than this link but its what I found: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8424904/People-with-Norman-names-wealthier-than-other-Britons.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/842...]

orbifold 8y ago
I would say that a successful male has more choice in women to reproduce with. Presumably whoever is chosen has above average genetic material as well. So it’s not so surprising that one can still see an effect of this. Moreover success in high society requires a different set of skills than success as a peasant.
TangoTrotFox 8y ago
Like many things here though there's a chicken and egg type scenario. Society mostly started with increasingly isolated tribal groups. Over time, and lots of killing, the most successful groups started to form into larger and larger groups. And the most successful individuals among these most successful groups were in turn on top of the top. At some point leadership implied what was an extremely high probability of a genetic advantage. And that advantage can persist through the centuries. It can also deteriorate. A great example of this is the House of Habsburg. [1] They were one of the most powerful families in history completely dominating Europe politics with lineages of kings and emperors throughout the entire continent for some 5 centuries, including holding the throne of the Holy Roman Empire for more than 300 years. But the reason they're an interesting example is because they're also the namesake of the Habsburg Jaw - a genetic deformity that was greatly exaggerated in the family through the years due to excessive inbreeding. If you've seen a cartoon depiction of royalty they often are drawn with the extreme protruding chin, which is a reference to this deformity and family in particular. That family was almost certainly extremely genetically fit at one point. But through excessive inbreeding they destroyed their own genetic lineage. In Spain this was especially pronounced with Charles II. [2] He was described as "short, lame, epileptic, senile, and bald before 35." He learned to talk at age 4, walk at 8. His Habsburg Jaw was so extreme he could not chew his own food. He, unsurprisingly, died childless at the age of 35 - ending 200 years of Habsburg rule in Spain. And to emphasize -- this is just one example. This family did not just rule Spain. They had lasting dynasties in Germany, Hungary, Croatia, England, Boehmia, Ireland, Portugal, and many other nations. Today, the entire house of Habsburg is extinct. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Habsburg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Habsburg [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain
- TheCoelacanth 8y ago
  Only the male line died out. The Habsburg-Lorraine cadet branch took over and although they don't actually rule any countries since WWI, they are still quite wealthy and well-connected.

by shubb 8y ago

orbifold 8y ago

I would say that a successful male has more choice in women to reproduce with. Presumably whoever is chosen has above average genetic material as well. So it’s not so surprising that one can still see an effect of this. Moreover success in high society requires a different set of skills than success as a peasant.

TangoTrotFox 8y ago

Like many things here though there's a chicken and egg type scenario. Society mostly started with increasingly isolated tribal groups. Over time, and lots of killing, the most successful groups started to form into larger and larger groups. And the most successful individuals among these most successful groups were in turn on top of the top. At some point leadership implied what was an extremely high probability of a genetic advantage. And that advantage can persist through the centuries. It can also deteriorate. A great example of this is the House of Habsburg. [1] They were one of the most powerful families in history completely dominating Europe politics with lineages of kings and emperors throughout the entire continent for some 5 centuries, including holding the throne of the Holy Roman Empire for more than 300 years. But the reason they're an interesting example is because they're also the namesake of the Habsburg Jaw - a genetic deformity that was greatly exaggerated in the family through the years due to excessive inbreeding. If you've seen a cartoon depiction of royalty they often are drawn with the extreme protruding chin, which is a reference to this deformity and family in particular. That family was almost certainly extremely genetically fit at one point. But through excessive inbreeding they destroyed their own genetic lineage. In Spain this was especially pronounced with Charles II. [2] He was described as "short, lame, epileptic, senile, and bald before 35." He learned to talk at age 4, walk at 8. His Habsburg Jaw was so extreme he could not chew his own food. He, unsurprisingly, died childless at the age of 35 - ending 200 years of Habsburg rule in Spain. And to emphasize -- this is just one example. This family did not just rule Spain. They had lasting dynasties in Germany, Hungary, Croatia, England, Boehmia, Ireland, Portugal, and many other nations. Today, the entire house of Habsburg is extinct. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Habsburg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Habsburg [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain

TheCoelacanth 8y ago
Only the male line died out. The Habsburg-Lorraine cadet branch took over and although they don't actually rule any countries since WWI, they are still quite wealthy and well-connected.