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> Certain EU Nations want to prevent fat right nationalist radicalization via censorship. I think that's clumsy, but good. But, who will be deciding what is c

> Certain EU Nations want to prevent fat right nationalist radicalization via censorship. I think that's clumsy, but good. But, who will be deciding what is considered as ultra-nationalist? Some liberal government that might be overly corrupt and is about to lose the election could just label their political opponents as modern day Nazis and have them be censored on Google search. For example Germany treats the AfD as a far-right party, but in other countries they would be centrist at best. There is no middle ground, because morals wary from individual, we might try a consensus, but that would destroy individual rights. To me it seems that it's best to have a censor-free search engine, perhaps only censor stuff that is related to illegal activities or terrorism, but make everything else be publicly available.

PavlovsCat 8y ago
> For example Germany treats the AfD as a far-right party, but in other countries they would be centrist at best. That is an "example" of an "overly corrupt" government that labels them far-right, because they would otherwise have lost an election to them? What speech of the AfD got censored in any shape or form? Yes, in other countries what is considered far-right in Germany is considered centrist. Those countries also consider what we consider centrist as leftists. So? They're a German political party, they will get judged by Germans, on the grounds of German history, thankyouverymuch. > perhaps only censor stuff that is related to illegal activities or terrorism So basically, back to square one, since you haven't really solved the problem of who defines that and how (which we do actually over centuries, it's not a problem to not have it solved once and for all perfectly, right now -- if anything the problem here is the misunderstanding that this could be possible), achieving nothing other than claiming that the AfD isn't far-right.
komali2 8y ago
>But, who will be deciding what is considered as ultra-nationalist? Presumably legislatures, that are elected? I'm not sure how it works over there. >Some liberal government that might be overly corrupt and is about to lose the election could just label their political opponents as modern day Nazis and have them be censored on Google search. Well, that's happening in America right now, the executive branch is labeling his opponent political party as Communists, don't respect rule of law, saying they want Open Borders or to "Take the Guns Away!" despite the fact that this is factually incorrect. In the USA, we have several branches of government that helps balance when this happens - for example, our judicial branch recently restored the press pass of a journalist removed for being a thorn in the executive's side. I imagine a balance is similarly struck in these European nations? They are all democracies, right? It seems very much an age of free flow information and rule of the people. Despite the warning-flag-waving of the alt-right in the USA that labeling people nazis will somehow cause totalitarian liberal rule, it really seems like the opposite is happening - far-right nationalism seems to be on the attack for totalitarianism, with the democratic systems keeping it at bay. I am very interested in discussing this further, however, because I don't believe it's a simple, black and white issue, and I am curious if there's ways to prevent bad things like far-right nationalism without restricting speech (which, the argument goes, could backfire).
- briandear 8y ago
  36% of Democrats polled support open borders: http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Final_HHP_Jun2018_RegisteredVoters_Crosstabs_Memo.pdf http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Fina... Democrat Rep Eric Swalwell advocates for a complete gun ban: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/this-democratic-congressman-wants-to-take-your-guns-away-at-least-hes-honest https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/this-democratic-c... So, your claim that it’s factually incorrect, is incorrect.
  - komali2 8y ago
    If I said to you, "Americans do not believe in evolution," by your logic, I am correct. This is because 30% of Americans do not believe in evolution: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/12/30/publics-views-on-human-evolution/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/12/30/publics-views-on-human-ev... How about I said to you that all men are descendants of Genghis Khan? Well, 1 in 200 are, and Eric Swalwell is 1 of the 198 Democrat representatives (though that percentage gets much lower if we lump in total Democrats in elected office...) http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-... My claim that the president's factually incorrect statements, are factually incorrect, remain unchallenged in any rhetorically effective way, though I invite you to try again if you please.
  - amanaplanacanal 8y ago
    Picking some minority view and ascribing it to all of your political opponents seems to be a very popular tactic nowadays, on all sides of the political spectrum. All it does is raise the level of hateful rhetoric, and does nothing to actually help people discuss the actual issues. Because of flaws in the way our minds work, it continues to work, and people continue to use it.

PavlovsCat 8y ago

> For example Germany treats the AfD as a far-right party, but in other countries they would be centrist at best. That is an "example" of an "overly corrupt" government that labels them far-right, because they would otherwise have lost an election to them? What speech of the AfD got censored in any shape or form? Yes, in other countries what is considered far-right in Germany is considered centrist. Those countries also consider what we consider centrist as leftists. So? They're a German political party, they will get judged by Germans, on the grounds of German history, thankyouverymuch. > perhaps only censor stuff that is related to illegal activities or terrorism So basically, back to square one, since you haven't really solved the problem of who defines that and how (which we do actually over centuries, it's not a problem to not have it solved once and for all perfectly, right now -- if anything the problem here is the misunderstanding that this could be possible), achieving nothing other than claiming that the AfD isn't far-right.

komali2 8y ago

>But, who will be deciding what is considered as ultra-nationalist? Presumably legislatures, that are elected? I'm not sure how it works over there. >Some liberal government that might be overly corrupt and is about to lose the election could just label their political opponents as modern day Nazis and have them be censored on Google search. Well, that's happening in America right now, the executive branch is labeling his opponent political party as Communists, don't respect rule of law, saying they want Open Borders or to "Take the Guns Away!" despite the fact that this is factually incorrect. In the USA, we have several branches of government that helps balance when this happens - for example, our judicial branch recently restored the press pass of a journalist removed for being a thorn in the executive's side. I imagine a balance is similarly struck in these European nations? They are all democracies, right? It seems very much an age of free flow information and rule of the people. Despite the warning-flag-waving of the alt-right in the USA that labeling people nazis will somehow cause totalitarian liberal rule, it really seems like the opposite is happening - far-right nationalism seems to be on the attack for totalitarianism, with the democratic systems keeping it at bay. I am very interested in discussing this further, however, because I don't believe it's a simple, black and white issue, and I am curious if there's ways to prevent bad things like far-right nationalism without restricting speech (which, the argument goes, could backfire).

briandear 8y ago
36% of Democrats polled support open borders: http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Final_HHP_Jun2018_RegisteredVoters_Crosstabs_Memo.pdf http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Fina... Democrat Rep Eric Swalwell advocates for a complete gun ban: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/this-democratic-congressman-wants-to-take-your-guns-away-at-least-hes-honest https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/this-democratic-c... So, your claim that it’s factually incorrect, is incorrect.
- komali2 8y ago
  If I said to you, "Americans do not believe in evolution," by your logic, I am correct. This is because 30% of Americans do not believe in evolution: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/12/30/publics-views-on-human-evolution/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/12/30/publics-views-on-human-ev... How about I said to you that all men are descendants of Genghis Khan? Well, 1 in 200 are, and Eric Swalwell is 1 of the 198 Democrat representatives (though that percentage gets much lower if we lump in total Democrats in elected office...) http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-... My claim that the president's factually incorrect statements, are factually incorrect, remain unchallenged in any rhetorically effective way, though I invite you to try again if you please.
- amanaplanacanal 8y ago
  Picking some minority view and ascribing it to all of your political opponents seems to be a very popular tactic nowadays, on all sides of the political spectrum. All it does is raise the level of hateful rhetoric, and does nothing to actually help people discuss the actual issues. Because of flaws in the way our minds work, it continues to work, and people continue to use it.