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The article seems to take the position that Intelligent life on earth is zero sum and there is no victor. I'm not sure that is the case. Then the rest of the a

The article seems to take the position that Intelligent life on earth is zero sum and there is no victor. I'm not sure that is the case. Then the rest of the article details the concept of theory of mind in philosophy and how that is not congruent with how neuroscience understands the brain. I don't see where the conflict is here unless you want to believe in the theory of mind.

monocasa 8y ago
So far, intelligence on Earth has been zero sum. We've wiped out multiple other intelligent species until we were the only ones.
- astrodust 8y ago
  We didn't do that because we're intelligent. We did that because we're assholes. Bacteria could wipe us out tomorrow given the right circumstances. They can be assholes too.
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    > They can be assholes too. Not really; they don't have any cognition. They're just little machines. They're no more of an asshole than a toaster or a clothespin.
    - Nasrudith 8y ago
      Depends on if you define asshole as intentions or results. Destroying a good thing for everyone for short term gain is classic asshole but of course they lack the agency.
    - andai 8y ago
      But isn't an asshole just a complex arrangement of proverbial toasters and clothespins?
    - ArchTypical 8y ago
      Those barefoot lego landmines are assholes.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  I think that was more a result of shared environmental niche more than anything since it happens with non-intelligent species as well. Predators fight over same prey niche even in the same species. Stable multipredator shared prey arrangements have a clear power differential - the stronger one can chase the weaker ones away from kills and if they are slow enough that may be their main strategy. If there were say merpeople from a similar time table it would take a long time for conflicts to start because they have a totally different environmental niche. Anyway early bands of hominids were nomadic by necessity due to localized depletion of food supplies. Given that scarcity it is no wonder that they would come into conflict and managed to drive megafauna to extinction. And their numbers weren't exactly high - humanity bears genetic scars of near extinction. Said scarcity is such a thing of the past that we have food distribution problems instead of production ones. Granted there is also a long history of zero sum thinking holding humanity back.
  - monocasa 8y ago
    Wouldn't intelligences engineered to be a component of our society, by definition, be sharing an environmental niche with us. Going back to your merpeople analogy, we wouldn't put in the effort to build AI, just to drop them in the ocean and have them live their lives separately from us and providing no use to us unless they become so economical that they're just literally everywhere on Earth. Edit: and going back to you merpeople example, the onset of humans represents a mass extinction level event for the closest thing to merpeople: ceteceans. http://www.iucn-csg.org/index.php/status-of-the-worlds-cetaceans/ http://www.iucn-csg.org/index.php/status-of-the-worlds-cetac...
astrodust 8y ago
The title is really ham-fisted. It means "threat" as in challenge. Like a better understanding of the brain and mind might destroy all of our previous misconceptions about how it works, radically altering our perceptions of ourselves. This is just as how AI is providing insight into how some cognitive processes work by serving as an experimental foundation.

monocasa 8y ago

So far, intelligence on Earth has been zero sum. We've wiped out multiple other intelligent species until we were the only ones.

astrodust 8y ago
We didn't do that because we're intelligent. We did that because we're assholes. Bacteria could wipe us out tomorrow given the right circumstances. They can be assholes too.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  > They can be assholes too. Not really; they don't have any cognition. They're just little machines. They're no more of an asshole than a toaster or a clothespin.
  - Nasrudith 8y ago
    Depends on if you define asshole as intentions or results. Destroying a good thing for everyone for short term gain is classic asshole but of course they lack the agency.
  - andai 8y ago
    But isn't an asshole just a complex arrangement of proverbial toasters and clothespins?
  - ArchTypical 8y ago
    Those barefoot lego landmines are assholes.
Nasrudith 8y ago
I think that was more a result of shared environmental niche more than anything since it happens with non-intelligent species as well. Predators fight over same prey niche even in the same species. Stable multipredator shared prey arrangements have a clear power differential - the stronger one can chase the weaker ones away from kills and if they are slow enough that may be their main strategy. If there were say merpeople from a similar time table it would take a long time for conflicts to start because they have a totally different environmental niche. Anyway early bands of hominids were nomadic by necessity due to localized depletion of food supplies. Given that scarcity it is no wonder that they would come into conflict and managed to drive megafauna to extinction. And their numbers weren't exactly high - humanity bears genetic scars of near extinction. Said scarcity is such a thing of the past that we have food distribution problems instead of production ones. Granted there is also a long history of zero sum thinking holding humanity back.
- monocasa 8y ago
  Wouldn't intelligences engineered to be a component of our society, by definition, be sharing an environmental niche with us. Going back to your merpeople analogy, we wouldn't put in the effort to build AI, just to drop them in the ocean and have them live their lives separately from us and providing no use to us unless they become so economical that they're just literally everywhere on Earth. Edit: and going back to you merpeople example, the onset of humans represents a mass extinction level event for the closest thing to merpeople: ceteceans. http://www.iucn-csg.org/index.php/status-of-the-worlds-cetaceans/ http://www.iucn-csg.org/index.php/status-of-the-worlds-cetac...

astrodust 8y ago

The title is really ham-fisted. It means "threat" as in challenge. Like a better understanding of the brain and mind might destroy all of our previous misconceptions about how it works, radically altering our perceptions of ourselves. This is just as how AI is providing insight into how some cognitive processes work by serving as an experimental foundation.