7 ms·

I used to run club nights in the 2000s, where I'd take over a night at a club and do some kind of event, I'd ticket the door, so people would pay like $5 to com

I used to run club nights in the 2000s, where I'd take over a night at a club and do some kind of event, I'd ticket the door, so people would pay like $5 to come in. Clubs always have a front and a backdoor..... I'd get 20-50 of my friends to line up, the security guy would know who's who... The line would move slowly, the person who went in, would go to the bar grab a small drink, and then exit out the back and re-join the line. The best part is, we would only have to do this for 20-30mins at max. The queue would grow organically, and the security guard would start letting my friends in at a faster pace, and then slow it down once everyones in.. where we would all have a few more drinks. With zero marketing I could fill a club by just making the line look big.. Here's the big kicker, the traditional marketing in the day (posters around town + getting people to hand out flyers at other clubs in the morning) cost MORE than just giving a couple free drinks to your friends who waited in line.

arkitaip 8y ago
I have seen the lack of social proof bury all kinds of promising businesses. We live in an age where people demand authenticity and unique experiences but few are willing to take even moderate chances to gain those experiences.
reviseddamage 8y ago
"20-50 of my friends" on every club night?
- Tostino 8y ago
  I'd take the term "friends" loosely. A club promotor likely has a ton of people they know and could call on.
  - intothemild 8y ago
    Exactly this. These are "friends" in the sense that we both mutually want something from eachother, they want free drinks and VIP access, I want them to do free shit for me. edit: remember this is pre social networking.
- mc32 8y ago
  If they were in college, university or first real world job, it’s very likely they had lots or acquaintances they could tap for mutually beneficial help.
- ryanmercer 8y ago
  I believe it, I used to be involved with an 'ultra lounge' here in Indy and the owner and I had tons of people in our contact list we'd call and send text messages to when we were having a slow night, mostly mid 20's women. We'd tell them to come out, give them a few house shots free which were mostly orange juice with a splash of alcohol, and then people that would walk in would be far more inclined to stay instead of immediately leaving, the girls would often get a drink or two bought for them off walk ins too then they'd usually leave within an hour or two to places more in their price range on the same block and we'd have effectively drawn a self-sustaining crowd. We'd also put out the brass posts and rope sometimes on slow nights, simply appearing like it was going to be busy enough to have to manage a line was often enough to get people to linger longer. If a big group came in, like a bridal shower doing a bar craw, we'd usually keep them around longer with a couple of rounds of the house shot too just to keep the female to male ratio up. Eating a few bucks per round of IVs was almost always a good spend in that case.
bartread 8y ago
I know this works - it's the same reason restaurants fill window tables first - but I've never really understood why this motivates people: a huge queue is, without fail, a massive turn-off for me. I suppose popularity is interpreted as a signal of quality/excitement but, to me at any rate, it's usually a signal of boredom and frustration. It works better with restaurants: I mean I want to see there's somebody in there eating the food but if it looks too busy, I'm out.
- athenot 8y ago
  I understand the feeling and mostly share it. But if you are wise about that, would I be mistaken in assuming you are also wise with your spending? Perhaps wiser than what the restaurant owners desire. Therefore it's probably in their best (financial) interest to select for those who will look for popularity and happily blow away money on high-margin items on the menu.
  - ljf 8y ago
    I used to notice this in shops too, as a teenager. We had a sort alternative mini shopping zone, like a slightly upscale indoor market. As soon as me and a couple of guys went into any empty stall, within a couple of minutes other people would crowd in too. We'd then pick somewhere else and watch the same thing happen. Always amused us.
- wlll 8y ago
  You're talking about Social Proof: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof
- saiya-jin 8y ago
  My own opinion - this comes down to sheepish mentality of majority of the people, maybe combined with rather extrovert personality. Many people want to be told what to wear, what to listen to and watch, and generally what is popular and 'in'. These people feel great in the crowd, so what is better than seeing a big crowd already trying to get to some bar? They can't be all wrong, right? I am same as you, too many people put me off(not afraid of the crowds in any way, it just means loud subpar experience). And I agree that totally empty places feel a bit weird (that's probably a tiny sheep in me)
dhimes 8y ago
Man, I wish I had this kind of genius. Not that it's virtuous or not, but just that you had the option available to you because you knew it.
xfitm3 8y ago
Fascinating strategy.
adamqureshi 8y ago
I used togo to those clubs back in the day. The lines were very long or sometimes there was a HUGE crowd. The drag queens would then "pick" who was worthy of getting in and who is "not" worthy. it was all about who is gonna spend money and who is not gonna spend money inside. There was also a guest list with nobody on it. The larger the crowd / longer the line the greater the demand to get into the club and it made it feel like the club was PACKED with girls or people or celebs. And we HAD to get in! as did everyone else. They would let girls in with no problem and if you came with a group of guys you would have to wait unless our friend was working at the door then we'd get in with no problem. One time we went out and the Drag queen at the door said to my friend " Go do your laundry" to mean, your not dressed to come in this club tonight.Ha ha.
projectramo 8y ago
I worked the door for a friend for a charity event. It was super early, and there was a regular bouncer. This skinny kid comes up and asks if he can go in. I said sure and let him in. The bouncer comes up and says "what are you doing?!" Keep in mind, this is my friend's event, for charity. I know all the people involved, and I know it is empty. "What do you mean?" I ask. "You can't just let him in." "What should I do?" I was really curious. "Ask him if he is on the list. Look at your pad. Go in and check. Then finally let him in." "Why?" "It makes him feel better about getting in." Its like an open secret everyone in the industry knows.
- bena 8y ago
  That's like weirdly sweet in a way
- antisthenes 8y ago
  What a strange human custom. If I've made the effort of traveling to a destination, the last thing on my mind would be to much more more I would enjoy it after I was made to jump these hoops by a power tripping gatekeeper. It wouldn't ruin my day, but it won't make me feel better - that's certain.
  - rococode 8y ago
    I think the "enjoyment" doesn't come from thinking that you passed some test, but rather, that you were allowed in while (it's implied that) others might not be let in. It makes it feel a little more exclusive, like you belong to some special privileged group.
saosebastiao 8y ago
I briefly had a (failed) startup in this area, and I did a lot of research. There are certainly a ton of clubs that do this, and there's an obvious reason why: in nightclubs, your product is your customers. They don't show up for your mediocre DJ or overpriced drinks from a bartender that takes an hour to get to you, they show up because there are people there...and a line communicates that there are people there. So yes, the reasoning behind this is solid, but the problem is that the results aren't. What happens when the person who has waited an hour in line finally gets in and the club only has 20 people in it? They see right through your sham, and they never wait in your line ever again. I've interviewed quite a few managers of successful clubs and tons of managers of unsuccessful clubs. The unsuccessful clubs are the ones trying to create the illusion of a packed house by creating lines outside, or other illusory shams like guerilla marketing. The successful ones definitely do most things better (food, drinks, ambiance, music, etc.) but they also rely extremely heavily on a similar illusion: they don't pay people to wait in line, they pay people to drink and dance inside the club. They literally have a Rolodex of professional partiers...typically young and attractive, mostly female but not exclusively so. They are people that don't mind dancing and having a good time when nobody is around. Successful clubs pay them to get there early and create the illusion of a party that is already started. They skip past the need for a first follower [1] by starting the night with 20 followers. Paying people to stand in line may trick people into thinking a club is popular, but it won't trick them into having a good time in an emtpy club that they waited hours to get into. [1] https://getlighthouse.com/blog/first-follower-principle-leader-learn/ https://getlighthouse.com/blog/first-follower-principle-lead...
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  This, I think, is what a Philz Coffee did when it opened near me. The very first day, or week, there were a bunch of really attractive people there in indoor and outdoor seating. After a few days the quality dropped off.
  - knolax 8y ago
    The quality of people?
djsumdog 8y ago
I had a friend who waited in a line assuming it was something cool. ... It was the line for a food kitchen.

arkitaip 8y ago

I have seen the lack of social proof bury all kinds of promising businesses. We live in an age where people demand authenticity and unique experiences but few are willing to take even moderate chances to gain those experiences.

reviseddamage 8y ago

"20-50 of my friends" on every club night?

Tostino 8y ago
I'd take the term "friends" loosely. A club promotor likely has a ton of people they know and could call on.
- intothemild 8y ago
  Exactly this. These are "friends" in the sense that we both mutually want something from eachother, they want free drinks and VIP access, I want them to do free shit for me. edit: remember this is pre social networking.
mc32 8y ago
If they were in college, university or first real world job, it’s very likely they had lots or acquaintances they could tap for mutually beneficial help.
ryanmercer 8y ago
I believe it, I used to be involved with an 'ultra lounge' here in Indy and the owner and I had tons of people in our contact list we'd call and send text messages to when we were having a slow night, mostly mid 20's women. We'd tell them to come out, give them a few house shots free which were mostly orange juice with a splash of alcohol, and then people that would walk in would be far more inclined to stay instead of immediately leaving, the girls would often get a drink or two bought for them off walk ins too then they'd usually leave within an hour or two to places more in their price range on the same block and we'd have effectively drawn a self-sustaining crowd. We'd also put out the brass posts and rope sometimes on slow nights, simply appearing like it was going to be busy enough to have to manage a line was often enough to get people to linger longer. If a big group came in, like a bridal shower doing a bar craw, we'd usually keep them around longer with a couple of rounds of the house shot too just to keep the female to male ratio up. Eating a few bucks per round of IVs was almost always a good spend in that case.

bartread 8y ago

I know this works - it's the same reason restaurants fill window tables first - but I've never really understood why this motivates people: a huge queue is, without fail, a massive turn-off for me. I suppose popularity is interpreted as a signal of quality/excitement but, to me at any rate, it's usually a signal of boredom and frustration. It works better with restaurants: I mean I want to see there's somebody in there eating the food but if it looks too busy, I'm out.

athenot 8y ago
I understand the feeling and mostly share it. But if you are wise about that, would I be mistaken in assuming you are also wise with your spending? Perhaps wiser than what the restaurant owners desire. Therefore it's probably in their best (financial) interest to select for those who will look for popularity and happily blow away money on high-margin items on the menu.
- ljf 8y ago
  I used to notice this in shops too, as a teenager. We had a sort alternative mini shopping zone, like a slightly upscale indoor market. As soon as me and a couple of guys went into any empty stall, within a couple of minutes other people would crowd in too. We'd then pick somewhere else and watch the same thing happen. Always amused us.
wlll 8y ago
You're talking about Social Proof: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof
saiya-jin 8y ago
My own opinion - this comes down to sheepish mentality of majority of the people, maybe combined with rather extrovert personality. Many people want to be told what to wear, what to listen to and watch, and generally what is popular and 'in'. These people feel great in the crowd, so what is better than seeing a big crowd already trying to get to some bar? They can't be all wrong, right? I am same as you, too many people put me off(not afraid of the crowds in any way, it just means loud subpar experience). And I agree that totally empty places feel a bit weird (that's probably a tiny sheep in me)

dhimes 8y ago

Man, I wish I had this kind of genius. Not that it's virtuous or not, but just that you had the option available to you because you knew it.

xfitm3 8y ago

Fascinating strategy.

adamqureshi 8y ago

I used togo to those clubs back in the day. The lines were very long or sometimes there was a HUGE crowd. The drag queens would then "pick" who was worthy of getting in and who is "not" worthy. it was all about who is gonna spend money and who is not gonna spend money inside. There was also a guest list with nobody on it. The larger the crowd / longer the line the greater the demand to get into the club and it made it feel like the club was PACKED with girls or people or celebs. And we HAD to get in! as did everyone else. They would let girls in with no problem and if you came with a group of guys you would have to wait unless our friend was working at the door then we'd get in with no problem. One time we went out and the Drag queen at the door said to my friend " Go do your laundry" to mean, your not dressed to come in this club tonight.Ha ha.

projectramo 8y ago

I worked the door for a friend for a charity event. It was super early, and there was a regular bouncer. This skinny kid comes up and asks if he can go in. I said sure and let him in. The bouncer comes up and says "what are you doing?!" Keep in mind, this is my friend's event, for charity. I know all the people involved, and I know it is empty. "What do you mean?" I ask. "You can't just let him in." "What should I do?" I was really curious. "Ask him if he is on the list. Look at your pad. Go in and check. Then finally let him in." "Why?" "It makes him feel better about getting in." Its like an open secret everyone in the industry knows.

bena 8y ago
That's like weirdly sweet in a way
antisthenes 8y ago
What a strange human custom. If I've made the effort of traveling to a destination, the last thing on my mind would be to much more more I would enjoy it after I was made to jump these hoops by a power tripping gatekeeper. It wouldn't ruin my day, but it won't make me feel better - that's certain.
- rococode 8y ago
  I think the "enjoyment" doesn't come from thinking that you passed some test, but rather, that you were allowed in while (it's implied that) others might not be let in. It makes it feel a little more exclusive, like you belong to some special privileged group.

saosebastiao 8y ago

I briefly had a (failed) startup in this area, and I did a lot of research. There are certainly a ton of clubs that do this, and there's an obvious reason why: in nightclubs, your product is your customers. They don't show up for your mediocre DJ or overpriced drinks from a bartender that takes an hour to get to you, they show up because there are people there...and a line communicates that there are people there. So yes, the reasoning behind this is solid, but the problem is that the results aren't. What happens when the person who has waited an hour in line finally gets in and the club only has 20 people in it? They see right through your sham, and they never wait in your line ever again. I've interviewed quite a few managers of successful clubs and tons of managers of unsuccessful clubs. The unsuccessful clubs are the ones trying to create the illusion of a packed house by creating lines outside, or other illusory shams like guerilla marketing. The successful ones definitely do most things better (food, drinks, ambiance, music, etc.) but they also rely extremely heavily on a similar illusion: they don't pay people to wait in line, they pay people to drink and dance inside the club. They literally have a Rolodex of professional partiers...typically young and attractive, mostly female but not exclusively so. They are people that don't mind dancing and having a good time when nobody is around. Successful clubs pay them to get there early and create the illusion of a party that is already started. They skip past the need for a first follower [1] by starting the night with 20 followers. Paying people to stand in line may trick people into thinking a club is popular, but it won't trick them into having a good time in an emtpy club that they waited hours to get into. [1] https://getlighthouse.com/blog/first-follower-principle-leader-learn/ https://getlighthouse.com/blog/first-follower-principle-lead...

SamReidHughes 8y ago
This, I think, is what a Philz Coffee did when it opened near me. The very first day, or week, there were a bunch of really attractive people there in indoor and outdoor seating. After a few days the quality dropped off.
- knolax 8y ago
  The quality of people?

djsumdog 8y ago

I had a friend who waited in a line assuming it was something cool. ... It was the line for a food kitchen.