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I don't think it's wrong. How has removing the headphone jack made anyone's life better? I can't think of one way. It's not as if you couldn't use wireless hea

I don't think it's wrong. How has removing the headphone jack made anyone's life better? I can't think of one way. It's not as if you couldn't use wireless headphones before the headphone jack was removed. Now that the jack is removed, you're forced to use a USB-C dongle (which has its disadvantages) or purchase expensive Bluetooth headphones if you want a decent enough quality / battery life.

jamesrcole 8y ago
> How has removing the headphone jack made anyone's life better? Ancestor comments of this have explained that. Removing headphone jack speeds up uptake of wireless headphones, and greater uptake of them makes them cheaper. These are changes that have already happened. This has benefited people who want to use wireless headphones.
- Tade0 8y ago
  , and greater uptake of them makes them cheaper. Does it really? I haven't noticed any change in price that could be attributed to this and I bought a pair a few weeks ago, so I'm somewhat up to date with the pricing.
  - jamesrcole 8y ago
    Yes. Scale/volume makes things cheaper. And yes, the price has gone down over the last few years. For example, I've seen ones for AU$20 now, which was not the case a few years ago.
    - Tade0 8y ago
      But that's has been the case for years now - well before this change. What I'm saying is that I don't see any change that could be attributed specifically to the trend of removing headphone jacks from phones.
      - jamesrcole 8y ago
        Reasons for saying it has an impact. 1) Prices have noticeably come down since they've been removed. This in itself is not proof, but at the same time, what is your proof that these phones have nothing to do with it? 2) Removing the headphone jack has given greater impetus for manufacturers to produce wireless headphones, and to produce lower-end models. More volume, more competition. 3) Removing the headphone jack has given more impetus for people to purchase wireless headphones. There are definitely people that have bought wireless headphones because of this, who wouldn't have bough them if their phones had a builtin headphone jack. 2 and 3 mean more volume, and that means lower prices. Also, the argument I've been making is not focused just on now. It's also an argument about things going forward.
        dangerface 8y ago
        1) I bought a pair of bluetooth headphones from china about three years ago for $20, the price hasn't dropped. 2) Aliexpress has nearly 100k results for bluetooth headphones there has always been plenty of competition, they are still shit. https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20181127061406&SearchText=bluetooth+earphone https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=S... 3) I agree with this more people have spent alot of money on bluetooth headphones that don't work, how is this a benefit to anyone but the corporations that profit from it? As you said yourself you can get bluetooth headphones for $20, but you wouldn't because they are shit. We don't need lower prices we need better value headphones, removing the headphone jack has done nothing to help this. There where cheap and shitty, wired and wireless headphones before they removed the headphone jack, there are cheap and shitty wired and wireless headphones after, the market is not better off and the customers are especially not better off. Edit- AirPods are the first decent bluetooth headphones, they are the competition not the lack of a jack. Look at that aliexpress link its not even a competition they are just copying the style and shoving the same shitty gear inside.
        Tade0 8y ago
        The single feature I've seen that provides any actual value is pairing via NFC - but that came before any mention of forcing wirelessness. Also the value comes from the fact that manual pairing is still shit - I only do it via NFC because I haven't been to date able to do so alternatively.
- yoodenvranx 8y ago
  > Removing headphone jack speeds up uptake of wireless headphones 1) And by doing this we create even more e-waste! 2) I do _not_ want wireless headphones! I almost exclusively use headphones when I am traveling by bus and train. This happens every 2-4 weeks. At the moment I have a cheap pair of wired headphones in my backpack. They need 0 maintenance. if I need them I just use them. They never needs charging and they never will break. If I have to switch to wireless headphones a) I have to start to take care about charging them and b) they will break after 3 years because the battery dies and can not be replaced.
  - jamesrcole 8y ago
    > 1) And by doing this we create even more e-waste! You could say that about anything new. > 2) I do _not_ want wireless headphones! Good for you, no-one is forcing you to use them. All I have ever done in this comment thread is argue against the idea that removing the headphone jack has zero benefits for anyone. And yet I'm getting piled on by people basically accusing me of trying to force everyone to go wireless. As if pointing out that some people have different wants from theirs is somehow denying their wants. It's an amazing lack of perspective. Is it that hard to accept that someone else has a different view from your own, and that them expressing it is not the same as trying to force it upon you?
    - xg15 8y ago
      But no-one was forcing you to use wired headsets before either. There were options for wireless available. I think the question remains whether making wired headphones harder to use had zero benefits. That's a different question than whether making wireless headphones easier to use had. You made an economic argument for the former question - but you can't make that argument and say "no one is forcing you" at the same time.
      - jamesrcole 8y ago
        I made an argument about removing the headphone jack, not about making one thing easier or another thing harder. My argument was about a consequence of removing the jack. I know no one was being forced to use wired headphones before. That has nothing at all to do with an argument about the consequences of removing the jack.

jamesrcole 8y ago

> How has removing the headphone jack made anyone's life better? Ancestor comments of this have explained that. Removing headphone jack speeds up uptake of wireless headphones, and greater uptake of them makes them cheaper. These are changes that have already happened. This has benefited people who want to use wireless headphones.

Tade0 8y ago
, and greater uptake of them makes them cheaper. Does it really? I haven't noticed any change in price that could be attributed to this and I bought a pair a few weeks ago, so I'm somewhat up to date with the pricing.
- jamesrcole 8y ago
  Yes. Scale/volume makes things cheaper. And yes, the price has gone down over the last few years. For example, I've seen ones for AU$20 now, which was not the case a few years ago.
  - Tade0 8y ago
    But that's has been the case for years now - well before this change. What I'm saying is that I don't see any change that could be attributed specifically to the trend of removing headphone jacks from phones.
    - jamesrcole 8y ago
      Reasons for saying it has an impact. 1) Prices have noticeably come down since they've been removed. This in itself is not proof, but at the same time, what is your proof that these phones have nothing to do with it? 2) Removing the headphone jack has given greater impetus for manufacturers to produce wireless headphones, and to produce lower-end models. More volume, more competition. 3) Removing the headphone jack has given more impetus for people to purchase wireless headphones. There are definitely people that have bought wireless headphones because of this, who wouldn't have bough them if their phones had a builtin headphone jack. 2 and 3 mean more volume, and that means lower prices. Also, the argument I've been making is not focused just on now. It's also an argument about things going forward.
      - dangerface 8y ago
        1) I bought a pair of bluetooth headphones from china about three years ago for $20, the price hasn't dropped. 2) Aliexpress has nearly 100k results for bluetooth headphones there has always been plenty of competition, they are still shit. https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20181127061406&SearchText=bluetooth+earphone https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=S... 3) I agree with this more people have spent alot of money on bluetooth headphones that don't work, how is this a benefit to anyone but the corporations that profit from it? As you said yourself you can get bluetooth headphones for $20, but you wouldn't because they are shit. We don't need lower prices we need better value headphones, removing the headphone jack has done nothing to help this. There where cheap and shitty, wired and wireless headphones before they removed the headphone jack, there are cheap and shitty wired and wireless headphones after, the market is not better off and the customers are especially not better off. Edit- AirPods are the first decent bluetooth headphones, they are the competition not the lack of a jack. Look at that aliexpress link its not even a competition they are just copying the style and shoving the same shitty gear inside.
        Tade0 8y ago
        The single feature I've seen that provides any actual value is pairing via NFC - but that came before any mention of forcing wirelessness. Also the value comes from the fact that manual pairing is still shit - I only do it via NFC because I haven't been to date able to do so alternatively.
yoodenvranx 8y ago
> Removing headphone jack speeds up uptake of wireless headphones 1) And by doing this we create even more e-waste! 2) I do _not_ want wireless headphones! I almost exclusively use headphones when I am traveling by bus and train. This happens every 2-4 weeks. At the moment I have a cheap pair of wired headphones in my backpack. They need 0 maintenance. if I need them I just use them. They never needs charging and they never will break. If I have to switch to wireless headphones a) I have to start to take care about charging them and b) they will break after 3 years because the battery dies and can not be replaced.
- jamesrcole 8y ago
  > 1) And by doing this we create even more e-waste! You could say that about anything new. > 2) I do _not_ want wireless headphones! Good for you, no-one is forcing you to use them. All I have ever done in this comment thread is argue against the idea that removing the headphone jack has zero benefits for anyone. And yet I'm getting piled on by people basically accusing me of trying to force everyone to go wireless. As if pointing out that some people have different wants from theirs is somehow denying their wants. It's an amazing lack of perspective. Is it that hard to accept that someone else has a different view from your own, and that them expressing it is not the same as trying to force it upon you?
  - xg15 8y ago
    But no-one was forcing you to use wired headsets before either. There were options for wireless available. I think the question remains whether making wired headphones harder to use had zero benefits. That's a different question than whether making wireless headphones easier to use had. You made an economic argument for the former question - but you can't make that argument and say "no one is forcing you" at the same time.
    - jamesrcole 8y ago
      I made an argument about removing the headphone jack, not about making one thing easier or another thing harder. My argument was about a consequence of removing the jack. I know no one was being forced to use wired headphones before. That has nothing at all to do with an argument about the consequences of removing the jack.