9 ms·

This is the trick for popular restaurants/take-out food in NYC: Buy a really small shop so only 3-5 people can fit inside and the rest have to form a line outsi

This is the trick for popular restaurants/take-out food in NYC: Buy a really small shop so only 3-5 people can fit inside and the rest have to form a line outside. Then take orders and serve people really slowly so the line builds. Pick up the phone even if it doesn’t ring and pretend you are taking orders, etc. Pretty much a textbook strategy. Food must still be good, but the anticipation from a long line makes it taste better and attracts a lot more customers.

tdeck 8y ago
There are a number of ice cream places that do this in SF (Bi-Rite comes first to mind). Basically they encourage everyone to slowly make up their mind while sampling every flavor, so the wait takes at least 20 minutes.
- tokyodude 8y ago
  That's a marketing strategy and not just nice service?
  - wmeredith 8y ago
    It can be both.
    - Filligree 8y ago
      Sounds like win-win to me.
      - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
        Unless you're at the back of the line ;)
  - notyourday 8y ago
    Because we all know rent is free and it is better to be seen as cool selling to 30 customers than selling to 300. That's the kind of marketing that makes places have "Marshall's Legal Possession" papers attached to the door.
koliber 8y ago
In Poland, during communist times, there were often shortages of basic necessities at stores. Long lines of people were a signal that something rare was on sale. This led to people getting conditioned that if there is a queue, you get in and wait and only then ask what is being sold. Queues are much more rare now and when they happen, it's for a different reason. However, I still sometimes get the "What's on sale?" question from passerby's.
- aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
  This is the quintessential Eastern bloc experience.
  - koliber 8y ago
    Absolutely. It's interesting how it engrained itself in the human psyche, even after almost three decades have passed.
    - netcan 8y ago
      Yeah, fascinating. "Eastern Bloc" countries certainly have cultural memories from those lines. But.. the UK and probably some other places have a special cultural relationship with queues too.
- lubos 8y ago
  You reminded me my childhood. When I was about 6 years old, I'd be sent to the shop about 30 minutes before it opens. There was already queue in the morning of elderly people waiting for an hour or longer. Every single morning. Nothing was for sale. It just that local bakery would supply only about 200 loaves of bread so it would be sold out pretty quick after opening. When you came home with fresh bread, it did feel like an achievement and the day was only about to start! Nobody in those times would question why bakery can't bake more if there is more demand. It was just the way it was. Centrally-planned economy where someone higher up has decided 200 a day will be the supply for the area.
- netcan 8y ago
ryanwaggoner 8y ago
The vast majority of tiny takeout places in NYC will never have a line of people outside, and they rent those places because real estate is expensive, not because they’re trying to appear more popular than they are. And if you watch the staff behind the counter and in the kitchen of the truly popular ones with lines, they’re definitely NOT taking their time. The throughput of tiny NYC restaurants is impressive. Occam’s razor applies here, even if it’s less interesting.
- notyourday 8y ago
  Don't tell this to marketing gurus. It destroys all of the castles they build in the sky.
- dllthomas 8y ago
  I remember taking a friend to Tacos Moreno in Santa Cruz. The line was around the block, despite the super fast service - when we got to the front, I had my burrito before he was done placing his (straightforward) order.
- owens99 8y ago
  We’re talking about different places.
  - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
    "I mean the true Scotsman!" You definitely presented it as the strategy for popular takeout places in NYC. And it's not.
    - owens99 8y ago
      I will try to be more clear next time.
intothemild 8y ago
I used to run club nights in the 2000s, where I'd take over a night at a club and do some kind of event, I'd ticket the door, so people would pay like $5 to come in. Clubs always have a front and a backdoor..... I'd get 20-50 of my friends to line up, the security guy would know who's who... The line would move slowly, the person who went in, would go to the bar grab a small drink, and then exit out the back and re-join the line. The best part is, we would only have to do this for 20-30mins at max. The queue would grow organically, and the security guard would start letting my friends in at a faster pace, and then slow it down once everyones in.. where we would all have a few more drinks. With zero marketing I could fill a club by just making the line look big.. Here's the big kicker, the traditional marketing in the day (posters around town + getting people to hand out flyers at other clubs in the morning) cost MORE than just giving a couple free drinks to your friends who waited in line.
- arkitaip 8y ago
  I have seen the lack of social proof bury all kinds of promising businesses. We live in an age where people demand authenticity and unique experiences but few are willing to take even moderate chances to gain those experiences.
- reviseddamage 8y ago
  "20-50 of my friends" on every club night?
  - Tostino 8y ago
    I'd take the term "friends" loosely. A club promotor likely has a ton of people they know and could call on.
    - intothemild 8y ago
      Exactly this. These are "friends" in the sense that we both mutually want something from eachother, they want free drinks and VIP access, I want them to do free shit for me. edit: remember this is pre social networking.
DeusExMachina 8y ago
I wouldn't say it's the same. What these shops are doing is create scarcity based on real demand. While it is somehow artificially created, the customers are real. The exclusivity of the experience then creates more demand. What the article describes is different. They would be the same only if these restaurants would be paying friends to keep the restaurant busy, to later sell it at a higher price.
- owens99 8y ago
  True.
ryanmercer 8y ago
>This is the trick for popular restaurants/take-out food in NYC: Buy a really small shop so only 3-5 people can fit inside and the rest have to form a line outside. Isn't there some t-shirt store there like that, always has a ridiculous line that requires police to oversee just to sell some t-shirts?
- Konnstann 8y ago
  You may be thinking of "Supreme", a brand that makes money off of scarcity. The ridiculous line comes from very limited supply and insane resale value of their clothing.
  - ryanmercer 8y ago
    Yup that looks like it.
saosebastiao 8y ago
This is one of those things that always gets repeated, but I have some strong doubts about how successful it could be. You are deliberately slowing your revenue stream by limiting your throughput, and losing customers due to the long line deterrence. Popularity may get you in the news, but it doesn't pay the bills by itself...you need to actually sell stuff to do that. I have doubts that it would even work as a way to get your name on the map. If you have a new restaurant, your arrivals are going to be so slow that if you even tried to limit your speed to the point where you build a line out the door, your customers are going to see right through it. Initial 1-star reviews for things like taking too long to get your food to the customers would be far more damaging to your business than the benefit of having a line out the door as some sort of quality signal. If it were possible to know the opportunity costs of the strategy, it would make for an interesting optimization problem. As it stands, I can't help but think it's purely a losing strategy. The restaurant industry is counterintuitive for almost everybody...shitty restaurants can stick around forever, and extremely popular restaurants regularly go out of business. Cash flow is King. If you are sacrificing cash flow in exchange for popularity, you may succeed in becoming popular, but good luck sticking around and making money.
- owens99 8y ago
  I wonder the same thing. But I watch and see the super successful places start by doing this. So either they care more about fame than about profits, or it works. Of course, for some places this absolutely won't work. If the product isn't unique, it won't work. People will just leave the line and go to another place. So I assume the key metric would be what % of people wait vs. leave the line.

tdeck 8y ago

There are a number of ice cream places that do this in SF (Bi-Rite comes first to mind). Basically they encourage everyone to slowly make up their mind while sampling every flavor, so the wait takes at least 20 minutes.

tokyodude 8y ago
That's a marketing strategy and not just nice service?
- wmeredith 8y ago
  It can be both.
  - Filligree 8y ago
    Sounds like win-win to me.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
      Unless you're at the back of the line ;)
- notyourday 8y ago
  Because we all know rent is free and it is better to be seen as cool selling to 30 customers than selling to 300. That's the kind of marketing that makes places have "Marshall's Legal Possession" papers attached to the door.

koliber 8y ago

In Poland, during communist times, there were often shortages of basic necessities at stores. Long lines of people were a signal that something rare was on sale. This led to people getting conditioned that if there is a queue, you get in and wait and only then ask what is being sold. Queues are much more rare now and when they happen, it's for a different reason. However, I still sometimes get the "What's on sale?" question from passerby's.

aaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
This is the quintessential Eastern bloc experience.
- koliber 8y ago
  Absolutely. It's interesting how it engrained itself in the human psyche, even after almost three decades have passed.
  - netcan 8y ago
    Yeah, fascinating. "Eastern Bloc" countries certainly have cultural memories from those lines. But.. the UK and probably some other places have a special cultural relationship with queues too.
lubos 8y ago
You reminded me my childhood. When I was about 6 years old, I'd be sent to the shop about 30 minutes before it opens. There was already queue in the morning of elderly people waiting for an hour or longer. Every single morning. Nothing was for sale. It just that local bakery would supply only about 200 loaves of bread so it would be sold out pretty quick after opening. When you came home with fresh bread, it did feel like an achievement and the day was only about to start! Nobody in those times would question why bakery can't bake more if there is more demand. It was just the way it was. Centrally-planned economy where someone higher up has decided 200 a day will be the supply for the area.
netcan 8y ago

ryanwaggoner 8y ago

The vast majority of tiny takeout places in NYC will never have a line of people outside, and they rent those places because real estate is expensive, not because they’re trying to appear more popular than they are. And if you watch the staff behind the counter and in the kitchen of the truly popular ones with lines, they’re definitely NOT taking their time. The throughput of tiny NYC restaurants is impressive. Occam’s razor applies here, even if it’s less interesting.

notyourday 8y ago
Don't tell this to marketing gurus. It destroys all of the castles they build in the sky.
dllthomas 8y ago
I remember taking a friend to Tacos Moreno in Santa Cruz. The line was around the block, despite the super fast service - when we got to the front, I had my burrito before he was done placing his (straightforward) order.
owens99 8y ago
We’re talking about different places.
- ryanwaggoner 8y ago
  "I mean the true Scotsman!" You definitely presented it as the strategy for popular takeout places in NYC. And it's not.
  - owens99 8y ago
    I will try to be more clear next time.

intothemild 8y ago

I used to run club nights in the 2000s, where I'd take over a night at a club and do some kind of event, I'd ticket the door, so people would pay like $5 to come in. Clubs always have a front and a backdoor..... I'd get 20-50 of my friends to line up, the security guy would know who's who... The line would move slowly, the person who went in, would go to the bar grab a small drink, and then exit out the back and re-join the line. The best part is, we would only have to do this for 20-30mins at max. The queue would grow organically, and the security guard would start letting my friends in at a faster pace, and then slow it down once everyones in.. where we would all have a few more drinks. With zero marketing I could fill a club by just making the line look big.. Here's the big kicker, the traditional marketing in the day (posters around town + getting people to hand out flyers at other clubs in the morning) cost MORE than just giving a couple free drinks to your friends who waited in line.

arkitaip 8y ago
I have seen the lack of social proof bury all kinds of promising businesses. We live in an age where people demand authenticity and unique experiences but few are willing to take even moderate chances to gain those experiences.
reviseddamage 8y ago
"20-50 of my friends" on every club night?
- Tostino 8y ago
  I'd take the term "friends" loosely. A club promotor likely has a ton of people they know and could call on.
  - intothemild 8y ago
    Exactly this. These are "friends" in the sense that we both mutually want something from eachother, they want free drinks and VIP access, I want them to do free shit for me. edit: remember this is pre social networking.

DeusExMachina 8y ago

I wouldn't say it's the same. What these shops are doing is create scarcity based on real demand. While it is somehow artificially created, the customers are real. The exclusivity of the experience then creates more demand. What the article describes is different. They would be the same only if these restaurants would be paying friends to keep the restaurant busy, to later sell it at a higher price.

owens99 8y ago
True.

ryanmercer 8y ago

>This is the trick for popular restaurants/take-out food in NYC: Buy a really small shop so only 3-5 people can fit inside and the rest have to form a line outside. Isn't there some t-shirt store there like that, always has a ridiculous line that requires police to oversee just to sell some t-shirts?

Konnstann 8y ago
You may be thinking of "Supreme", a brand that makes money off of scarcity. The ridiculous line comes from very limited supply and insane resale value of their clothing.
- ryanmercer 8y ago
  Yup that looks like it.

saosebastiao 8y ago

This is one of those things that always gets repeated, but I have some strong doubts about how successful it could be. You are deliberately slowing your revenue stream by limiting your throughput, and losing customers due to the long line deterrence. Popularity may get you in the news, but it doesn't pay the bills by itself...you need to actually sell stuff to do that. I have doubts that it would even work as a way to get your name on the map. If you have a new restaurant, your arrivals are going to be so slow that if you even tried to limit your speed to the point where you build a line out the door, your customers are going to see right through it. Initial 1-star reviews for things like taking too long to get your food to the customers would be far more damaging to your business than the benefit of having a line out the door as some sort of quality signal. If it were possible to know the opportunity costs of the strategy, it would make for an interesting optimization problem. As it stands, I can't help but think it's purely a losing strategy. The restaurant industry is counterintuitive for almost everybody...shitty restaurants can stick around forever, and extremely popular restaurants regularly go out of business. Cash flow is King. If you are sacrificing cash flow in exchange for popularity, you may succeed in becoming popular, but good luck sticking around and making money.

owens99 8y ago
I wonder the same thing. But I watch and see the super successful places start by doing this. So either they care more about fame than about profits, or it works. Of course, for some places this absolutely won't work. If the product isn't unique, it won't work. People will just leave the line and go to another place. So I assume the key metric would be what % of people wait vs. leave the line.