8 ms·

The selection of software that simply works on Linux (especially Debian & derivatives like Ubuntu) eclipses that on FreeBsd. I've seen attempts at bringing the

The selection of software that simply works on Linux (especially Debian & derivatives like Ubuntu) eclipses that on FreeBsd. I've seen attempts at bringing the Linux ABI to FreeBsd, including the familiar and popular apt package manager. If and when it's as easy to "sudo apt-get install package" on FreeBsd as it is on Ubuntu, it will see an increase in adoption in both the sever-production setting, and as a development environment.

compsciphd 8y ago
what about debian/kfreebsd (never used it, just wondering)
- hackeraccount 8y ago
  I don't think that's being released anymore.
ComputerGuru 8y ago
> I've seen attempts at bringing the Linux ABI to FreeBsd, including the familiar and popular apt package manager. That's ridiculous. `pkg` on FreeBSD is a thousand times more consistent and user friendly. Perhaps you are talking about the days before pkg-ng (next generation) became the default, but now installing anything is as easy as `pkg install foo` and it just works. It even updates automatically so URLs aren't out of date.
- bayindirh 8y ago
  I have a deep respect for BSD family, and their way of doing things, but regardless of OS and distro, apt is probably the most advanced package manager currently. When used with aptitude, it's very easy to use, extremely powerful and flexible. Also, it has the most extensive knowledge on details of packages in terms of dependency graphs and modification of files which belongs to packages. At least, that's what I saw in 14 years.
  - rleigh 8y ago
    While this is certainly true, have you used pkg in the last year or so? It's come on leaps and bounds. The solver is now on a par with apt's SAT-solver, and overall it's (IMO) almost as good as apt at this point.
    - bayindirh 8y ago
      No, honestly I didn't. I've installed OpenBSD to a VM in the beginning of the year to learn it, but I had no time to either play or learn using it. Looks like I need to resume learning it. Thanks.
      - ComputerGuru 8y ago
        OpenBSD isn’t using the pkg we are talking about, fwiw. You’ll need to install FreeBSD for that.
        bayindirh 8y ago
        Thanks, will try FreeBSD first, then.
        sverige 8y ago
        OpenBSD's package manager is actually really easy to learn and use. Even I can do it.
        bayindirh 8y ago
        I will try both, promise. :) I also find OpenBSD's ideology more resonating to me.
        ComputerGuru 8y ago
        OpenBSD's package manager comes unconfigured out of the box, though :(
rleigh 8y ago
Have you seen the current size of the ports tree? It's on the scale of a distribution the size of Debian. While there is certainly some Linux-specific software which doesn't work on FreeBSD (and vice versa to a smaller extent), this is a tiny fraction of the total amount of portable free software packaged for both.
- rbanffy 8y ago
  It's not easy to accidentally make software that compiles on Linux and fails on BSD.
  - rleigh 8y ago
    There are degrees of difficulty. If you're developing on Linux there are numerous portability traps you might fall into if you're not paying attention and testing on other platforms like MacOS or BSD. From glibc-specific functions and structure members, to libraries which are Linux-only. You also have compiler differences, e.g. GCC vs LLVM. None of these are usually much work to correct. But they can creep in without you realising if your CI isn't testing on multiple platforms. The most annoying I had recently was a service using PAM for authentication/authorisation. Linux-PAM is both Linux-specific and subtly incompatible with Solaris PAM (the original implementation) and OpenPAM on FreeBSD. This means you have to have three sets of ifdefs for the different implementations, which is annoying. But if you developed for Linux and never tried building or testing on the other platforms, you would never appreciate the problem even existed!
    - rbanffy 8y ago
      It's a bit like shell scripts that call for sh, but have bashisms in them. Thanks for the comments. It's easy to forget the norm is not testing on multiple compilers and OSs. BTW, I haven't been testing my stuff on ARM and I probably should. Not that I expect anything to break, but I don't want the stuff I don't expect to break surprising me.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

compsciphd 8y ago

what about debian/kfreebsd (never used it, just wondering)

hackeraccount 8y ago
I don't think that's being released anymore.

ComputerGuru 8y ago

> I've seen attempts at bringing the Linux ABI to FreeBsd, including the familiar and popular apt package manager. That's ridiculous. `pkg` on FreeBSD is a thousand times more consistent and user friendly. Perhaps you are talking about the days before pkg-ng (next generation) became the default, but now installing anything is as easy as `pkg install foo` and it just works. It even updates automatically so URLs aren't out of date.

bayindirh 8y ago
I have a deep respect for BSD family, and their way of doing things, but regardless of OS and distro, apt is probably the most advanced package manager currently. When used with aptitude, it's very easy to use, extremely powerful and flexible. Also, it has the most extensive knowledge on details of packages in terms of dependency graphs and modification of files which belongs to packages. At least, that's what I saw in 14 years.
- rleigh 8y ago
  While this is certainly true, have you used pkg in the last year or so? It's come on leaps and bounds. The solver is now on a par with apt's SAT-solver, and overall it's (IMO) almost as good as apt at this point.
  - bayindirh 8y ago
    No, honestly I didn't. I've installed OpenBSD to a VM in the beginning of the year to learn it, but I had no time to either play or learn using it. Looks like I need to resume learning it. Thanks.
    - ComputerGuru 8y ago
      OpenBSD isn’t using the pkg we are talking about, fwiw. You’ll need to install FreeBSD for that.
      - bayindirh 8y ago
        Thanks, will try FreeBSD first, then.
        sverige 8y ago
        OpenBSD's package manager is actually really easy to learn and use. Even I can do it.
        bayindirh 8y ago
        I will try both, promise. :) I also find OpenBSD's ideology more resonating to me.
        ComputerGuru 8y ago
        OpenBSD's package manager comes unconfigured out of the box, though :(

rleigh 8y ago

Have you seen the current size of the ports tree? It's on the scale of a distribution the size of Debian. While there is certainly some Linux-specific software which doesn't work on FreeBSD (and vice versa to a smaller extent), this is a tiny fraction of the total amount of portable free software packaged for both.

rbanffy 8y ago
It's not easy to accidentally make software that compiles on Linux and fails on BSD.
- rleigh 8y ago
  There are degrees of difficulty. If you're developing on Linux there are numerous portability traps you might fall into if you're not paying attention and testing on other platforms like MacOS or BSD. From glibc-specific functions and structure members, to libraries which are Linux-only. You also have compiler differences, e.g. GCC vs LLVM. None of these are usually much work to correct. But they can creep in without you realising if your CI isn't testing on multiple platforms. The most annoying I had recently was a service using PAM for authentication/authorisation. Linux-PAM is both Linux-specific and subtly incompatible with Solaris PAM (the original implementation) and OpenPAM on FreeBSD. This means you have to have three sets of ifdefs for the different implementations, which is annoying. But if you developed for Linux and never tried building or testing on the other platforms, you would never appreciate the problem even existed!
  - rbanffy 8y ago
    It's a bit like shell scripts that call for sh, but have bashisms in them. Thanks for the comments. It's easy to forget the norm is not testing on multiple compilers and OSs. BTW, I haven't been testing my stuff on ARM and I probably should. Not that I expect anything to break, but I don't want the stuff I don't expect to break surprising me.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]