4 ms·

i guess my point is that i don’t see how that follows. if bluetooth headphones are so great compared to wired headphones, then wasn’t that incentive and market

i guess my point is that i don’t see how that follows. if bluetooth headphones are so great compared to wired headphones, then wasn’t that incentive and market already there? in fact, it just shows the truth, in that apple just wants to be able to sell more and more dongles and bluetooth headphones, so they force this onto their users.

jamesrcole 8y ago
You say you don't see how it follows, yet you yourself say it will cause more wireless headphones to be sold. And if it causes Apple to sell more wireless headphones, then it will also cause other manufacturers to sell more wireless headphones. Greater volume of sales will bring down the price of wireless headphones. > in fact, it just shows the truth, in that apple just wants to be able to sell more and more dongles and bluetooth headphones The idea that this is simply a cheap cash-grab sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. But even if it's a purely financial decision, so what? Aren't financial considerations behind most things companies do? If HN is to be believed, most people absolutely hate the fact that the phones don't have headphone jacks. So if people hate it, and won't buy the phones because of it, then how can it also be a cash grab?
- nikofeyn 8y ago
  > You say you don't see how it follows, yet you yourself say it will cause more wireless headphones to be sold. no i didn't. i said apple wants to sell more wireless headphones and dongles. removing the audio jack forces users to look at the new shiny airpods, or whatever they're called, and say "i need that". then they need dongles for integration purposes. yet, they didn't need the dongle before and could still buy wireless headphones. of course it's a cash grab. that is how apple operates. conspiracy theory? the ceo is literally an expert in operations and logistics, probably apple's greatest strength behind their marketing. it can't be any other decision, because like i said, other phone makers are able to integrate it just fine.
  - jamesrcole 8y ago
    "Apple will sell more wireless headphones, but this won't mean they sell more wireless headphones." That's what you're saying. If people are going to buy more wireless headphones because of these phones, then they're going to buy them from a range of manufacturers -- in fact mostly other manufacturers because the Apple ones are so pricey. If people are going to buy more wireless headphones because of these phones then the prices will go down. Do you dispute this? Because this is the point that you originally claimed I didn't make. > i said apple wants to sell more ... dongles. Do you know that the phones (up until latest models) come with a dongle so there's not going to be a large number of sales of them? > of course it's a cash grab. that is how apple operates It's ridiculous to suggest that everything apple does is just a cheap cash grab.
    - ayoisaiah 8y ago
      > It's ridiculous to suggest that everything apple does is just a cheap cash grab. What's so ridiculous about it? Have you not seen the rate at which Apple are increasing the prices across all their products? And petty practices like not including the lightening to 3.5mm adapter or fast charger on a $1000+ phone e.t.c.
      - jamesrcole 8y ago
        The person I was replying to said "of course it's a cash grab. that is how apple operates". Increases in the prices of their products hardly equates to everything they are doing being a cash grab. Are their privacy, accessibility or environmental (manufacturing processes, packaging choices, etc) measures all, for example, cash grabs?
        nikofeyn 8y ago
        i just want to remind you that the original discussion that i initiated was to point out that apple has not given any legitimate reason for removing the audio jack. there is simply no need to remove it. creating a thin or water resistant phone is not an explanation since other manufacturers include the audio jack and have no issues with these features. your argument is that it helps the wireless headphone market. i don’t think it does in a way that actually matters, but even that doesn’t explain why it was removed in the first place. why does apple care about that market outside of their own sales? the real reason why they removed it is to further increase accessory sales and to market themselves as a design leader, which further sells devices. they have created this mystique that they do and others will follow. unfortunately, that is somewhat the case given other dynamics. the fact of the matter is that there is zero benefit to the consumer of an iphone for having the audio jack removed. there is benefit to apple’s cash flow by removing it. and here we are.
- yellowapple 8y ago
  "The idea that this is simply a cheap cash-grab sounds like a conspiracy theory to me." Conspiracy theories are sometimes true. In this case, vendor lock-in is Apple's bread and butter, and it doesn't take any mental gymnastics at all to recognize that removing a standard and universal port without any actually good reason fits that pattern remarkably well.
  - jamesrcole 8y ago
    1) it still allows standard 3.5mm headphone jacks to be used. 2) Bluetooth is a standard, and Apple isn't the only company that makes Bluetooth headphones.
    - Lio 8y ago
      ...if you want to settle for lower quality Bluetooth audio. Apple don’t support high quality Bluetooth audio standards except with the license of their own proprietary technology.
      - jamesrcole 8y ago
        Yes. I have never said or implied that it's suitable for everyone. This same point applies to the criticisms of a lack of a headphone jack, too: the things those people are concerned about, such as sound quality, aren't an issue for everybody, either.

jamesrcole 8y ago

You say you don't see how it follows, yet you yourself say it will cause more wireless headphones to be sold. And if it causes Apple to sell more wireless headphones, then it will also cause other manufacturers to sell more wireless headphones. Greater volume of sales will bring down the price of wireless headphones. > in fact, it just shows the truth, in that apple just wants to be able to sell more and more dongles and bluetooth headphones The idea that this is simply a cheap cash-grab sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. But even if it's a purely financial decision, so what? Aren't financial considerations behind most things companies do? If HN is to be believed, most people absolutely hate the fact that the phones don't have headphone jacks. So if people hate it, and won't buy the phones because of it, then how can it also be a cash grab?

nikofeyn 8y ago
> You say you don't see how it follows, yet you yourself say it will cause more wireless headphones to be sold. no i didn't. i said apple wants to sell more wireless headphones and dongles. removing the audio jack forces users to look at the new shiny airpods, or whatever they're called, and say "i need that". then they need dongles for integration purposes. yet, they didn't need the dongle before and could still buy wireless headphones. of course it's a cash grab. that is how apple operates. conspiracy theory? the ceo is literally an expert in operations and logistics, probably apple's greatest strength behind their marketing. it can't be any other decision, because like i said, other phone makers are able to integrate it just fine.
- jamesrcole 8y ago
  "Apple will sell more wireless headphones, but this won't mean they sell more wireless headphones." That's what you're saying. If people are going to buy more wireless headphones because of these phones, then they're going to buy them from a range of manufacturers -- in fact mostly other manufacturers because the Apple ones are so pricey. If people are going to buy more wireless headphones because of these phones then the prices will go down. Do you dispute this? Because this is the point that you originally claimed I didn't make. > i said apple wants to sell more ... dongles. Do you know that the phones (up until latest models) come with a dongle so there's not going to be a large number of sales of them? > of course it's a cash grab. that is how apple operates It's ridiculous to suggest that everything apple does is just a cheap cash grab.
  - ayoisaiah 8y ago
    > It's ridiculous to suggest that everything apple does is just a cheap cash grab. What's so ridiculous about it? Have you not seen the rate at which Apple are increasing the prices across all their products? And petty practices like not including the lightening to 3.5mm adapter or fast charger on a $1000+ phone e.t.c.
    - jamesrcole 8y ago
      The person I was replying to said "of course it's a cash grab. that is how apple operates". Increases in the prices of their products hardly equates to everything they are doing being a cash grab. Are their privacy, accessibility or environmental (manufacturing processes, packaging choices, etc) measures all, for example, cash grabs?
      - nikofeyn 8y ago
        i just want to remind you that the original discussion that i initiated was to point out that apple has not given any legitimate reason for removing the audio jack. there is simply no need to remove it. creating a thin or water resistant phone is not an explanation since other manufacturers include the audio jack and have no issues with these features. your argument is that it helps the wireless headphone market. i don’t think it does in a way that actually matters, but even that doesn’t explain why it was removed in the first place. why does apple care about that market outside of their own sales? the real reason why they removed it is to further increase accessory sales and to market themselves as a design leader, which further sells devices. they have created this mystique that they do and others will follow. unfortunately, that is somewhat the case given other dynamics. the fact of the matter is that there is zero benefit to the consumer of an iphone for having the audio jack removed. there is benefit to apple’s cash flow by removing it. and here we are.
yellowapple 8y ago
"The idea that this is simply a cheap cash-grab sounds like a conspiracy theory to me." Conspiracy theories are sometimes true. In this case, vendor lock-in is Apple's bread and butter, and it doesn't take any mental gymnastics at all to recognize that removing a standard and universal port without any actually good reason fits that pattern remarkably well.
- jamesrcole 8y ago
  1) it still allows standard 3.5mm headphone jacks to be used. 2) Bluetooth is a standard, and Apple isn't the only company that makes Bluetooth headphones.
  - Lio 8y ago
    ...if you want to settle for lower quality Bluetooth audio. Apple don’t support high quality Bluetooth audio standards except with the license of their own proprietary technology.
    - jamesrcole 8y ago
      Yes. I have never said or implied that it's suitable for everyone. This same point applies to the criticisms of a lack of a headphone jack, too: the things those people are concerned about, such as sound quality, aren't an issue for everybody, either.