6 ms·

Apple has had great success in the past by pushing new standards in computer peripherals, deprecating old standards, and generally moving the industry forward b

Apple has had great success in the past by pushing new standards in computer peripherals, deprecating old standards, and generally moving the industry forward by fiat. I think we've all benefitted somewhat from this attitude, even if it was inconvenient. The distinction here is that the 3.5mm standard isn't/wasn't a computer peripheral standard. It is/was an audio industry standard. There are many uses for 3.5mm that have nothing to do with phones/tablets/laptops/desktops. Additionally, the audio industry has a different obsolescence timeline than computer equipment. Audiophile and pro audio headphones (for example) represent a significant investment and are intended to last many years. In my view, Apple's approach to this was a kind of chauvinistic hubris. No, I don't want to use a $15 adapter of dubious quality on my $1500 custom molded in-ear monitors. No, I can't just get a new pair. No, I can't re-sell them, they only fit my ears. No, they wouldn't sound the same even if a bluetooth version were to become available. No, I doubt the 4 person company that makes them is eager to try to figure out how to make a lightning version, even if they have the in-house expertise. The decision really shows a lack of understanding of the world outside of computer manufacturing, and it is too bad others followed suit.

joelhooks 8y ago
The adapter works great with the Shure SE846 IEMs. I’d rather use the speakers than die on the no adapter hill.
- ddingus 8y ago
  Easy, get a phone that does not force this stuff.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - stouset 8y ago
    Ah yes, let me just throw out the hundreds of dollars worth of apps, not to mention the rest of my investment in the ecosystem, because I might have to buy, once, an adapter that costs 1% of the sticker price of the phone and can just be permanently left attached. “Easy”.
    - rkangel 8y ago
      Unfortunately that vendor lock-in is exactly the problem. We don't have easy free consumer choice to just pick up the phone that does have a 3.5mm jack, so we are left to complain as per the original article.
    - lagadu 8y ago
      So Apple is effectively holding you hostage.
      - stouset 8y ago
        Not any more than I'd be held hostage to the Android ecosystem after having bought hundreds of dollars of worth of apps.
        ddingus 8y ago
        Well, no. You can get great Android devices with headphone jacks.
    - ddingus 8y ago
      Saw that coming a mile away. I won't use an Apple phone. Never would, probably never will. We had this whole lock in discussion in the 90's. Got my first Linux distribution back then. Red Hat 5.2 in the nice box. That investment has paid and paid and paid... I like some Mac computers a lot. Happy customer. 2012 Mac Book Pro is a sweeet machine! Has all the ports, is plenty fast, sexy. No, I don't run iTunes and friends. Today, I will run most anything on a computer. I don't mind Android. There are open alternatives all over the place and I use them, moving from platform to platform with relative ease. This all gets easier over time. I can even dumpster dive and get up, running and make some quick cash. Android is a reasonable, general purpose computer when I want one on the go. Programming, terminal? Check. Content create? Check. Comms of all kinds? Check. Heck, I can through a VM on my Samsung and actually do stuff using the pen. Amazing. If I choose to carry bluetooth keyboard / pad combo, it's happy to show me a pointer and I'm off to the races! And device support? That phone will operate a portable, USB floppy drive, if I need it. Apple has nothing at all on that environment. The pads? Throwaways, got one given to me, and it's a great toddler learning tool. Throwaway app buys. I won't ever take the thing seriously, though Mrs loves to stream on it. As for attached... Nice phone, what's that thing sticking out of it like that... Seriously. Honestly, if it were me stuck with that, I would try and find a case with the jack built in. And here's the thing! You got that choice forced on you. it's completely unnecessary. Forced migrations happen sometimes. That's OK. This one is unnecessary. There is no meaningful gain, and quite a few downsides to digital only audio delivery. Finally, yeah. Easy. Only hurts the first time. Rip that bandaid. No joke! Just start. Lots of help out there, and you will benefit over the longer haul. Once you do, and start navigating away from that lock in, it all improves nicely. I've helped a few people do that. They get there. Soon, they are showing me cool things they found out there in the wild.
nikofeyn 8y ago
yes. for example, i sometimes use my phone as a high quality source for outputting audio that i then sample into my op-1 or octatrack. yes, those are niche products though not niche use cases, and i think it’s an example where apple’s usage dictation doesn’t work. what is funny is that apple gave the excuse of wanting to save space getting rid of the audio jack. but my lg v35 has an audio jack and is thinner than and just as nicely designed as the iphone xs. additionally, lg actually has a high end audio dac in the phone, so music on my v35, and the v10 before it, sounds insanely good on my beyerdynamic headphones. if i were to move to an iphone, apple would want to take these experiences away from me. and for what? pure hubris predicated on the business plan to sell more accessories like dongles and headphones mascaraed as design courage.
- nikofeyn 8y ago
  not sure how people disagree with me simply stating my use of my phone’s audio. also, i meant “masqueraded” in that last line. not sure what happened.
azag0 8y ago
The $15 adapter is most likely of similar quality as the DAC and other audio components in the phone, so I don’t see the point. (Also, most people I know with $1000 headphones use an external audiophile-grade DAC anyway.)
- nikofeyn 8y ago
  exactly, like what other phones provide. for example, the lg v series phones.
- ishmeister 8y ago
  They might, but why should they have to? That tiny ESS DAC in LG phones is measurably better than a lot of external "audiophile-grade" DACs. It doesn't compromise the design or the water resistance of the phone either and probably doesn't add much cost relative to other components. This is basically an arrogant move that can't really be technically justified. E.g. By arguing that better external options exist - better external cameras also exist, should we get rid of the camera too?
buboard 8y ago
> pushing new standards in computer peripherals agree about deprecation, but what are the standards that they pushed on to the rest of the industry? i m not knowledgeable on the matter
nickm12 8y ago
> Additionally, the audio industry has a different obsolescence timeline than computer equipment This I have studio headphones I bought in 1995 that I still use nearly daily (albeit not with my phone). I've replaced the earpads on them at least 5 times.

joelhooks 8y ago

The adapter works great with the Shure SE846 IEMs. I’d rather use the speakers than die on the no adapter hill.

ddingus 8y ago
Easy, get a phone that does not force this stuff.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- stouset 8y ago
  Ah yes, let me just throw out the hundreds of dollars worth of apps, not to mention the rest of my investment in the ecosystem, because I might have to buy, once, an adapter that costs 1% of the sticker price of the phone and can just be permanently left attached. “Easy”.
  - rkangel 8y ago
    Unfortunately that vendor lock-in is exactly the problem. We don't have easy free consumer choice to just pick up the phone that does have a 3.5mm jack, so we are left to complain as per the original article.
  - lagadu 8y ago
    So Apple is effectively holding you hostage.
    - stouset 8y ago
      Not any more than I'd be held hostage to the Android ecosystem after having bought hundreds of dollars of worth of apps.
      - ddingus 8y ago
        Well, no. You can get great Android devices with headphone jacks.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Saw that coming a mile away. I won't use an Apple phone. Never would, probably never will. We had this whole lock in discussion in the 90's. Got my first Linux distribution back then. Red Hat 5.2 in the nice box. That investment has paid and paid and paid... I like some Mac computers a lot. Happy customer. 2012 Mac Book Pro is a sweeet machine! Has all the ports, is plenty fast, sexy. No, I don't run iTunes and friends. Today, I will run most anything on a computer. I don't mind Android. There are open alternatives all over the place and I use them, moving from platform to platform with relative ease. This all gets easier over time. I can even dumpster dive and get up, running and make some quick cash. Android is a reasonable, general purpose computer when I want one on the go. Programming, terminal? Check. Content create? Check. Comms of all kinds? Check. Heck, I can through a VM on my Samsung and actually do stuff using the pen. Amazing. If I choose to carry bluetooth keyboard / pad combo, it's happy to show me a pointer and I'm off to the races! And device support? That phone will operate a portable, USB floppy drive, if I need it. Apple has nothing at all on that environment. The pads? Throwaways, got one given to me, and it's a great toddler learning tool. Throwaway app buys. I won't ever take the thing seriously, though Mrs loves to stream on it. As for attached... Nice phone, what's that thing sticking out of it like that... Seriously. Honestly, if it were me stuck with that, I would try and find a case with the jack built in. And here's the thing! You got that choice forced on you. it's completely unnecessary. Forced migrations happen sometimes. That's OK. This one is unnecessary. There is no meaningful gain, and quite a few downsides to digital only audio delivery. Finally, yeah. Easy. Only hurts the first time. Rip that bandaid. No joke! Just start. Lots of help out there, and you will benefit over the longer haul. Once you do, and start navigating away from that lock in, it all improves nicely. I've helped a few people do that. They get there. Soon, they are showing me cool things they found out there in the wild.

nikofeyn 8y ago

yes. for example, i sometimes use my phone as a high quality source for outputting audio that i then sample into my op-1 or octatrack. yes, those are niche products though not niche use cases, and i think it’s an example where apple’s usage dictation doesn’t work. what is funny is that apple gave the excuse of wanting to save space getting rid of the audio jack. but my lg v35 has an audio jack and is thinner than and just as nicely designed as the iphone xs. additionally, lg actually has a high end audio dac in the phone, so music on my v35, and the v10 before it, sounds insanely good on my beyerdynamic headphones. if i were to move to an iphone, apple would want to take these experiences away from me. and for what? pure hubris predicated on the business plan to sell more accessories like dongles and headphones mascaraed as design courage.

nikofeyn 8y ago
not sure how people disagree with me simply stating my use of my phone’s audio. also, i meant “masqueraded” in that last line. not sure what happened.

azag0 8y ago

The $15 adapter is most likely of similar quality as the DAC and other audio components in the phone, so I don’t see the point. (Also, most people I know with $1000 headphones use an external audiophile-grade DAC anyway.)

nikofeyn 8y ago
exactly, like what other phones provide. for example, the lg v series phones.
ishmeister 8y ago
They might, but why should they have to? That tiny ESS DAC in LG phones is measurably better than a lot of external "audiophile-grade" DACs. It doesn't compromise the design or the water resistance of the phone either and probably doesn't add much cost relative to other components. This is basically an arrogant move that can't really be technically justified. E.g. By arguing that better external options exist - better external cameras also exist, should we get rid of the camera too?

buboard 8y ago

> pushing new standards in computer peripherals agree about deprecation, but what are the standards that they pushed on to the rest of the industry? i m not knowledgeable on the matter

nickm12 8y ago

> Additionally, the audio industry has a different obsolescence timeline than computer equipment This I have studio headphones I bought in 1995 that I still use nearly daily (albeit not with my phone). I've replaced the earpads on them at least 5 times.