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That’s really cherry picking dates. Use 12 months instead of Dec 31st and it’s only down 50%, not 80%. Use 18 months and it’s actually in the green. Bitcoin is

That’s really cherry picking dates. Use 12 months instead of Dec 31st and it’s only down 50%, not 80%. Use 18 months and it’s actually in the green. Bitcoin is volatile. No one disputes that.

wpietri 8y ago
Anybody who ever called it a store of value was disputing that.
- garmaine 8y ago
  If you zoom out the graph it has been a pretty good store of value. It just has many boom-bust cycles overlaid on top. Would you say equities or housing are a poor store of value, comparing early 2007 to late 2008?
  - taurath 8y ago
    Equities and housing have some floor from the value of scrap materials - the value floor for a failed idea is 0.
    - garmaine 8y ago
      The value floor of a trust minimized machine arbitration system is not zero. It is the aggregate cost of displaced legal and financial services, which can be substantial.
      - bb88 8y ago
        Yes, yes it is 0. Why I don't have to use your trust minimized machine arbitration system, when I can build my own, just like the 1,000 or so other alt-coins.
        garmaine 8y ago
        Which would also be included in that valuation, the total value of which would be equal to or greater than the alternative costs.
        wpietri 8y ago
        Not at all. At least not in any realizable way. Even if a "trust minimized machine arbitration system" (which Bitcoin isn't) had much practical use and so displaced existing non-automated services, your notion of value still doesn't make sense. As an consider email. People used to spend a lot of money preparing and shipping/mailing physical documents. Much of that has been replaced by email. But what's the price of sending an email? Zero, or as close to it as makes no difference Is email valuable? Surely. Does that translate into a high price? Definitely not, because supply is approximately infinite.
  - wpietri 8y ago
    High volatility is exactly what you don't want in a store of value. Boom-bust cycles are terrible for stores of value. To answer your question, equities and stocks are in fact not great stores of value. Cash in a bank is the most common one. Your comparison is also pretty bad. Housing and stocks had hundred-year track records before they fell. More importantly, they have demonstrated value. Stocks are backed by real, income-generating businesses. Houses are things people live in. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has no real demonstrated utility beyond some light crime, like buying some drugs, penny-ante extortion, and a little money laundering. You can't live in it. You can't even make jewelry with it, so unlike gold there's no practical use propping the price up.
Kaveren 8y ago
That's a gambler fallacy argument. You need to contextualize the price. Why did it rise? Mass public adoption with a wave of speculation. People thought they'd all get rich off it. This is not comparable to 2013. Calling it a dip doesn't make it a dip. You need concrete reasoning for why it's going to go up to previous prices again if that's what you believe will happen. Many people got burned in the last bubble, so they're going to be cautious about it.

That’s really cherry picking dates. Use 12 months instead of Dec 31st and it’s only down 50%, not 80%. Use 18 months and it’s actually in the green. Bitcoin is volatile. No one disputes that.

wpietri 8y ago

Anybody who ever called it a store of value was disputing that.

garmaine 8y ago
If you zoom out the graph it has been a pretty good store of value. It just has many boom-bust cycles overlaid on top. Would you say equities or housing are a poor store of value, comparing early 2007 to late 2008?
- taurath 8y ago
  Equities and housing have some floor from the value of scrap materials - the value floor for a failed idea is 0.
  - garmaine 8y ago
    The value floor of a trust minimized machine arbitration system is not zero. It is the aggregate cost of displaced legal and financial services, which can be substantial.
    - bb88 8y ago
      Yes, yes it is 0. Why I don't have to use your trust minimized machine arbitration system, when I can build my own, just like the 1,000 or so other alt-coins.
      - garmaine 8y ago
        Which would also be included in that valuation, the total value of which would be equal to or greater than the alternative costs.
        wpietri 8y ago
        Not at all. At least not in any realizable way. Even if a "trust minimized machine arbitration system" (which Bitcoin isn't) had much practical use and so displaced existing non-automated services, your notion of value still doesn't make sense. As an consider email. People used to spend a lot of money preparing and shipping/mailing physical documents. Much of that has been replaced by email. But what's the price of sending an email? Zero, or as close to it as makes no difference Is email valuable? Surely. Does that translate into a high price? Definitely not, because supply is approximately infinite.
- wpietri 8y ago
  High volatility is exactly what you don't want in a store of value. Boom-bust cycles are terrible for stores of value. To answer your question, equities and stocks are in fact not great stores of value. Cash in a bank is the most common one. Your comparison is also pretty bad. Housing and stocks had hundred-year track records before they fell. More importantly, they have demonstrated value. Stocks are backed by real, income-generating businesses. Houses are things people live in. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has no real demonstrated utility beyond some light crime, like buying some drugs, penny-ante extortion, and a little money laundering. You can't live in it. You can't even make jewelry with it, so unlike gold there's no practical use propping the price up.

Kaveren 8y ago

That's a gambler fallacy argument. You need to contextualize the price. Why did it rise? Mass public adoption with a wave of speculation. People thought they'd all get rich off it. This is not comparable to 2013. Calling it a dip doesn't make it a dip. You need concrete reasoning for why it's going to go up to previous prices again if that's what you believe will happen. Many people got burned in the last bubble, so they're going to be cautious about it.