7 ms·

Why You Should Care About the Julian Assange Case

83 points by wolfgke 8y ago

craftyguy 8y ago
> An Assange prosecution could give the Trump presidency broad new powers to put Trump’s media “enemies” in jail, instead of just yanking a credential or two I don't understand how a prosecution of something completely unrelated to what he has done on/with wikileaks automagically translates into donald having 'broad new powers' to start throwing journalists in jail. If Assange is blamed for and/or convicted of some sexual misconduct or whatever (again, unrelated to his 'journalism' work), does the author think that all journalists are guilty of this and subject to imprisonment? Edit: thanks for the explanations. I look forward to the incoming HN bury brigade, since I asked a question based on a false pretense. Such is the reddit^H^H^H^H^H^Hhackernews way.
- seagullz 8y ago
  It is extremely unlikely that US prosecutors are after him for any alleged "backroom talk/act". WSJ reported that the charges against him “ may involve the Espionage Act, which criminalizes the disclosure of national defense-related information.”[0] Accordingly, the implications on journalism are real and far-reaching [1]. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-is-optimistic-it-will-prosecute-assange-1542323142 https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-is-optimistic-it-will-prose... [1] https://theintercept.com/2018/11/16/as-the-obama-doj-concluded-prosecution-of-julian-assange-for-publishing-documents-poses-grave-threats-to-press-freedom/ https://theintercept.com/2018/11/16/as-the-obama-doj-conclud...
- tanderson92 8y ago
  There's no evidence that the prosecution would be for anything non-'journalism' related; that is unsupported speculation that the author doesn't imply or suggest.
- acct1771 8y ago
  Precedent.
chrissam 8y ago
I think the Assange/wikileaks indictment is a misstep by the justice department/current administration. My understanding is that it's far from clear how a case again Assange/wikileaks would play out in court. Like the article mentions, the New York Times and others have published classified information repeatedly -- how can Assange be indicted but not the NYT? Assange also isn't an American citizen and he hasn't leaked information himself, just published it. I think there's a good chance Assange would be acquitted. I also think it's a bizarre exagerration to argue that an attempted prosecution of Assage would result in "broad new powers to put Trump’s media 'enemies' in jail". Don't get me wrong -- I don't much care for Assange. It seems to me that there's a lot of hot air coming from him and he appears to have quite an ego. Also, though I understand there is disagreement about this, I think countries keep secrets for a reason and I consider it naive utopianism to expect everything to be brought into the open. In an ideal world, sure, but the world is not ideal. While I don't think Assange/wikileaks are necessarily "siding with Russia," I do think that Russia has made use of wikileaks. Wikileaks is heavily promoted in Russian propaganda, and it seems at least plausible that Russia could obtain information and leak it through wikileaks. This is a problem for wikileaks: if you're all about freedom of information and you make public everything passed onto you, it's totally possible for state actors -- the same state actors whose behavior you find reprehensible -- to use you as a tool to further their own interests.
- js8 8y ago
  "I think the Assange/wikileaks indictment is a misstep by the justice department/current administration." That is how power is gained, by taking risks. Maybe this will fail in court, maybe it won't. If it won't, the government will get more power. "how can Assange be indicted but not the NYT?" To demonstrate power, you don't need to be fair. In fact, not being fair is much more scary. "I do think that Russia has made use of wikileaks" To me, this begs a question, why was USA so inept in not making use of Wikileaks themselves? If it is an "independent" organization up for grabs. Perhaps to get more power, you need a good enemy, too. That's why.
  - bad_user 8y ago
    > To me, this begs a question No it doesn't :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
mr_overalls 8y ago
> "If you hate Assange because of his role in the 2016 race, please take a deep breath and consider what a criminal charge that does not involve the 2016 election might mean." --- Why? There is mounting evidence that Assange - whatever his idealistic intentions might have been with Wikileaks - has become an active conspirator in working with the Russians (and unsavory Americans) in undermining US democracy.
- module0000 8y ago
  What mounting evidence? What actions make him an active conspirator in that specific domain?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Theodores 8y ago
  I know the word sounds alarmist but we do actually have an actual era of fascism on our small hands right now. The claims of Russian interference is just one of many checkboxes on the 'must be fascist' list, you can add the refugee crisis, the populist rallies and plenty else to the ticked off boxes. We don't live in a black and white world. Assange is undoubtedly a remarkable individual but he has a lot to learn and being the pariah whistleblower type is not good for him to learn some of the finer lessons, e.g. in diplomacy. Assange controls when leaks are leaked, he makes sure Wikipedia is not as transparent as it needs to be, he has sought to monetize war and misery by the deals he has done. Compare and contrast with John Young at Cryptome. Assange was in control of timing the 2016 email thing, there is no evidence beyond waffle said in Washington that the 'Reds' were behind the hack that got those emails. Suggesting otherwise is to not fully appreciate how the Russians view the US and its politics. In the Kremlin they do not care who gets in to the White House because they know that whomever is there the policy towards Russia will be the same. If they do engage constructively with the US for a more peaceful world with free trade then they know that they can't do so with a 'puppet' regime elected by their meddling. It is not how it works. So why do so many people think otherwise? Fascism. Hard to bandy that word around but it is true. Unless the left offer a party with policies that are appealing to people there is no option apart from fascism when regular capitalism fails. Right now we are in a period of badly failing capitalism, nobody has had wage increases for a long time, stocks only go up because of share buy back scams, the 2008 crash was a can kicked down the road by QE and the signs are all there. 1930's Germany was the same, they didn't vote for someone advertising themselves as a fascist, they voted for the Trump of their time. So where did the emails come from? If it was not the Russians then it is time to look at the time stamp meta data, which I have not done myself but I believe it points to places outside of the Russian time zones. The same people wanting Brexit and the breakup of the EU are meddling, manipulating everyone to this lovely and actually fascist era of politics we are waking up to.
scelerat 8y ago
Can someone please explain or point to what Assange is being indicted for?
- dilap 8y ago
  no one knows! but probably something line "publishing secrets mumble mumble national security mumble mumble"
  - happytoexplain 8y ago
    Why the snark? I too would like to know if there's a probable reason that's more specific - you're saying nobody knows, but then you're saying there is a probable reason, but then you're apparently mocking that probable reason. But you haven't provided any substance on the probable reason or why you're mocking it.
    - dilap 8y ago
      Not trying to be too snarky, just my best guess of what the charges will be. I think "national security" is the nose in the camel's tent that's being used to shift the government in a more authoritarian direction.
- zeeed 8y ago
  The charges are sealed and undisclosed. As the article [1] (linked by the article at the rolling stone) points out > The prosecutor wrote that the charges and arrest warrant “would need to remain sealed until Assange is arrested in connection with the charges in the criminal complaint and can therefore no longer evade or avoid arrest and extradition in this matter.” > At another point in the document, the prosecutor wrote that “due to the sophistication of the defendant and the publicity surrounding the case, no other procedure is likely to keep confidential the fact that Assange has been charged.” meaning that they kept the charges closed and tried to hide their existence AND content until they have arrested him. So all of that is very much on purpose. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/accidental-filing-indicates-indictment-prepared-julian-assange-n937036 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/accidental-filing-indic...
gomijacogeo 8y ago
I think there's a spectrum of behaviors that range from legitimate news gathering to something very much like espionage. Scenario 1: Leaker: Hi, I'm XXX, I work for YYY and I'm witness to event ZZZ that I think must be exposed. I have classified documents to back up what I have to tell you. Reporter: I'm going to stop you there and make sure my editor, owner, and lawyers are on board with this and determine how to proceed. Please do not communicate any classified material at this time. Scenario 2: Leaker: Hi, I'm unhappy with the general state of things and am willing to exfiltrate any secure data I can get my hands on. Reporter: Great! What do you have access to? No, better, just send me a listing of everything. Here's a secure server and software that should crawl your net and get it out without raising any eyebrows. No wait, even better, I'll send you a USB dongle that will look like a keyboard to the hw event logger with everything you'll need on it. Not saying Assange did exactly scenario #2, but I think the press can be only so much of an active participant before they incur some liability for the removal of classified information.

83 points by wolfgke 8y ago

> An Assange prosecution could give the Trump presidency broad new powers to put Trump’s media “enemies” in jail, instead of just yanking a credential or two I don't understand how a prosecution of something completely unrelated to what he has done on/with wikileaks automagically translates into donald having 'broad new powers' to start throwing journalists in jail. If Assange is blamed for and/or convicted of some sexual misconduct or whatever (again, unrelated to his 'journalism' work), does the author think that all journalists are guilty of this and subject to imprisonment? Edit: thanks for the explanations. I look forward to the incoming HN bury brigade, since I asked a question based on a false pretense. Such is the reddit^H^H^H^H^H^Hhackernews way.

seagullz 8y ago
It is extremely unlikely that US prosecutors are after him for any alleged "backroom talk/act". WSJ reported that the charges against him “ may involve the Espionage Act, which criminalizes the disclosure of national defense-related information.”[0] Accordingly, the implications on journalism are real and far-reaching [1]. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-is-optimistic-it-will-prosecute-assange-1542323142 https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-is-optimistic-it-will-prose... [1] https://theintercept.com/2018/11/16/as-the-obama-doj-concluded-prosecution-of-julian-assange-for-publishing-documents-poses-grave-threats-to-press-freedom/ https://theintercept.com/2018/11/16/as-the-obama-doj-conclud...
tanderson92 8y ago
There's no evidence that the prosecution would be for anything non-'journalism' related; that is unsupported speculation that the author doesn't imply or suggest.
acct1771 8y ago
Precedent.

chrissam 8y ago

I think the Assange/wikileaks indictment is a misstep by the justice department/current administration. My understanding is that it's far from clear how a case again Assange/wikileaks would play out in court. Like the article mentions, the New York Times and others have published classified information repeatedly -- how can Assange be indicted but not the NYT? Assange also isn't an American citizen and he hasn't leaked information himself, just published it. I think there's a good chance Assange would be acquitted. I also think it's a bizarre exagerration to argue that an attempted prosecution of Assage would result in "broad new powers to put Trump’s media 'enemies' in jail". Don't get me wrong -- I don't much care for Assange. It seems to me that there's a lot of hot air coming from him and he appears to have quite an ego. Also, though I understand there is disagreement about this, I think countries keep secrets for a reason and I consider it naive utopianism to expect everything to be brought into the open. In an ideal world, sure, but the world is not ideal. While I don't think Assange/wikileaks are necessarily "siding with Russia," I do think that Russia has made use of wikileaks. Wikileaks is heavily promoted in Russian propaganda, and it seems at least plausible that Russia could obtain information and leak it through wikileaks. This is a problem for wikileaks: if you're all about freedom of information and you make public everything passed onto you, it's totally possible for state actors -- the same state actors whose behavior you find reprehensible -- to use you as a tool to further their own interests.

js8 8y ago
"I think the Assange/wikileaks indictment is a misstep by the justice department/current administration." That is how power is gained, by taking risks. Maybe this will fail in court, maybe it won't. If it won't, the government will get more power. "how can Assange be indicted but not the NYT?" To demonstrate power, you don't need to be fair. In fact, not being fair is much more scary. "I do think that Russia has made use of wikileaks" To me, this begs a question, why was USA so inept in not making use of Wikileaks themselves? If it is an "independent" organization up for grabs. Perhaps to get more power, you need a good enemy, too. That's why.
- bad_user 8y ago
  > To me, this begs a question No it doesn't :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

mr_overalls 8y ago

> "If you hate Assange because of his role in the 2016 race, please take a deep breath and consider what a criminal charge that does not involve the 2016 election might mean." --- Why? There is mounting evidence that Assange - whatever his idealistic intentions might have been with Wikileaks - has become an active conspirator in working with the Russians (and unsavory Americans) in undermining US democracy.

module0000 8y ago
What mounting evidence? What actions make him an active conspirator in that specific domain?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Theodores 8y ago
I know the word sounds alarmist but we do actually have an actual era of fascism on our small hands right now. The claims of Russian interference is just one of many checkboxes on the 'must be fascist' list, you can add the refugee crisis, the populist rallies and plenty else to the ticked off boxes. We don't live in a black and white world. Assange is undoubtedly a remarkable individual but he has a lot to learn and being the pariah whistleblower type is not good for him to learn some of the finer lessons, e.g. in diplomacy. Assange controls when leaks are leaked, he makes sure Wikipedia is not as transparent as it needs to be, he has sought to monetize war and misery by the deals he has done. Compare and contrast with John Young at Cryptome. Assange was in control of timing the 2016 email thing, there is no evidence beyond waffle said in Washington that the 'Reds' were behind the hack that got those emails. Suggesting otherwise is to not fully appreciate how the Russians view the US and its politics. In the Kremlin they do not care who gets in to the White House because they know that whomever is there the policy towards Russia will be the same. If they do engage constructively with the US for a more peaceful world with free trade then they know that they can't do so with a 'puppet' regime elected by their meddling. It is not how it works. So why do so many people think otherwise? Fascism. Hard to bandy that word around but it is true. Unless the left offer a party with policies that are appealing to people there is no option apart from fascism when regular capitalism fails. Right now we are in a period of badly failing capitalism, nobody has had wage increases for a long time, stocks only go up because of share buy back scams, the 2008 crash was a can kicked down the road by QE and the signs are all there. 1930's Germany was the same, they didn't vote for someone advertising themselves as a fascist, they voted for the Trump of their time. So where did the emails come from? If it was not the Russians then it is time to look at the time stamp meta data, which I have not done myself but I believe it points to places outside of the Russian time zones. The same people wanting Brexit and the breakup of the EU are meddling, manipulating everyone to this lovely and actually fascist era of politics we are waking up to.

scelerat 8y ago

Can someone please explain or point to what Assange is being indicted for?

dilap 8y ago
no one knows! but probably something line "publishing secrets mumble mumble national security mumble mumble"
- happytoexplain 8y ago
  Why the snark? I too would like to know if there's a probable reason that's more specific - you're saying nobody knows, but then you're saying there is a probable reason, but then you're apparently mocking that probable reason. But you haven't provided any substance on the probable reason or why you're mocking it.
  - dilap 8y ago
    Not trying to be too snarky, just my best guess of what the charges will be. I think "national security" is the nose in the camel's tent that's being used to shift the government in a more authoritarian direction.
zeeed 8y ago
The charges are sealed and undisclosed. As the article [1] (linked by the article at the rolling stone) points out > The prosecutor wrote that the charges and arrest warrant “would need to remain sealed until Assange is arrested in connection with the charges in the criminal complaint and can therefore no longer evade or avoid arrest and extradition in this matter.” > At another point in the document, the prosecutor wrote that “due to the sophistication of the defendant and the publicity surrounding the case, no other procedure is likely to keep confidential the fact that Assange has been charged.” meaning that they kept the charges closed and tried to hide their existence AND content until they have arrested him. So all of that is very much on purpose. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/accidental-filing-indicates-indictment-prepared-julian-assange-n937036 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/accidental-filing-indic...

gomijacogeo 8y ago

I think there's a spectrum of behaviors that range from legitimate news gathering to something very much like espionage. Scenario 1: Leaker: Hi, I'm XXX, I work for YYY and I'm witness to event ZZZ that I think must be exposed. I have classified documents to back up what I have to tell you. Reporter: I'm going to stop you there and make sure my editor, owner, and lawyers are on board with this and determine how to proceed. Please do not communicate any classified material at this time. Scenario 2: Leaker: Hi, I'm unhappy with the general state of things and am willing to exfiltrate any secure data I can get my hands on. Reporter: Great! What do you have access to? No, better, just send me a listing of everything. Here's a secure server and software that should crawl your net and get it out without raising any eyebrows. No wait, even better, I'll send you a USB dongle that will look like a keyboard to the hw event logger with everything you'll need on it. Not saying Assange did exactly scenario #2, but I think the press can be only so much of an active participant before they incur some liability for the removal of classified information.