3 ms·

I posted this to show how difficult home automation devices can be and how much one has to invest into proper localization. While the document shows that for ma

by rmoriz 8y ago

I posted this to show how difficult home automation devices can be and how much one has to invest into proper localization. While the document shows that for many combinations adapter exist, the price of the adapters is almost as high as a new thermostat (most vendors changed the size in 1998 so if one has a 20 year old home you still need an adapter or a plumber to replace the valve.)

aequitas 8y ago
My 1975 (Dutch) house came with screw style valves, not push style which this document seems to describe. I can imagine there is a large amount of different screw type valves that have no adapter of any type available. I ended up replacing the valves with proper push types which here in the Netherlands are mostly normalized to one of the more common German valve sizes.
- tanepiper 8y ago
  We just bought a house built in 1989 and wanted to replace the radiators. Turns out that a size was used that is now non-standard - about 1mm too thin - just enough that we probably have to get a professional in to do changes because the local Warmteservice doesn't have the bits (and not being a Dutch speaker also makes this kind of thing more difficult to deal with it seems).
  - aequitas 8y ago
    Warmteservice have about every part you could need, I've never been disappointed by then, compared to the generic Bouwmarkten. Don't worry about the language, as native Dutchman I often don't know the lingo for these branch of technology, a picture does often help. Otherwise https://www.werkspot.nl/ https://www.werkspot.nl/ is your friend in finding a pro.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jonsen 8y ago
Mount a power resistor close to and below the existing thermostat. The thermostat can then be controlled by varying the current in the resistor. Only a few Watts of power should be necessary. Maybe there’s a potential busyness fabricating som form of “cup” with build in heating resistor fitting over various types of thermostat.
- jacobush 8y ago
  Wow! I can't believe I never thought of this! What a nice hack.
- rmoriz 8y ago
  common thermostats work entirely on a thermal base (using a fluid). No electicity. They is a standard that "3" on the scale is mapped to 20°C.
jaclaz 8y ago
AFAIK (at least here in Italy) the "standard" is M 30 x 1.5 mm, so the actual thermostatic cartridges are generally that size. The document you posted (which is very nice BTW) indexes all the existing valves so it makes IMHO the (actually problematic) situation seem worse than it is (because the actual diffusion of this or that type of valve isn't taken into consideration). Check this: https://support.tado.com/hc/it/articles/212050583-Con-quali-valvole-sono-compatibili-le-Teste-Termostatiche-Intelligenti-Ho-bisogno-di-un-adattatore-per-montarle-correttamente- https://support.tado.com/hc/it/articles/212050583-Con-quali-... basically all M30x1.5 are not listed as they are directly compatible. Then, 11 most common types are listed, and for the first 6 ones (the most common among the non-M30x1.5) the adapter is included. From personal experience (anecdata, so take it with a grain of salt) the "standard" M30x1.5 + Danfoss + Giacomini + Caleffi cover really nearly 100% of what people can find in their home. These other guys here say that a basic set of adapters cover 90%: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5KOMFlDbhE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5KOMFlDbhE https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/common-data-files/static/2017-05+Leaflet+for+Valves+Adaptators-WEB.pdf https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/common-data-files/static/...
- rmoriz 8y ago
  This is not true, because most homes are built before 1998. The vendors you name had other threads prior to 1998. This also causes a lot of trouble because "old" and "new" does not match, even when from the same vendor. The only way is to change the valve (very expensive) our buy extra adapters. This is also true if you break an existing thermostat: You can't purchase them anymore. You'll have to buy one of the "new" standard and pick on of the "solutions" mentioned above. For example I'm living in an early-1990s building equipped with the old Oventrop M 30 x 1.0. I just bought a smart thermostat which claims to be compatbile with Oventrop but turned out only with the post 1998 Oventrop M 30 x 1.5 …

by rmoriz 8y ago

aequitas 8y ago

My 1975 (Dutch) house came with screw style valves, not push style which this document seems to describe. I can imagine there is a large amount of different screw type valves that have no adapter of any type available. I ended up replacing the valves with proper push types which here in the Netherlands are mostly normalized to one of the more common German valve sizes.

tanepiper 8y ago
We just bought a house built in 1989 and wanted to replace the radiators. Turns out that a size was used that is now non-standard - about 1mm too thin - just enough that we probably have to get a professional in to do changes because the local Warmteservice doesn't have the bits (and not being a Dutch speaker also makes this kind of thing more difficult to deal with it seems).
- aequitas 8y ago
  Warmteservice have about every part you could need, I've never been disappointed by then, compared to the generic Bouwmarkten. Don't worry about the language, as native Dutchman I often don't know the lingo for these branch of technology, a picture does often help. Otherwise https://www.werkspot.nl/ https://www.werkspot.nl/ is your friend in finding a pro.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

jonsen 8y ago

Mount a power resistor close to and below the existing thermostat. The thermostat can then be controlled by varying the current in the resistor. Only a few Watts of power should be necessary. Maybe there’s a potential busyness fabricating som form of “cup” with build in heating resistor fitting over various types of thermostat.

jacobush 8y ago
Wow! I can't believe I never thought of this! What a nice hack.
rmoriz 8y ago
common thermostats work entirely on a thermal base (using a fluid). No electicity. They is a standard that "3" on the scale is mapped to 20°C.

jaclaz 8y ago

AFAIK (at least here in Italy) the "standard" is M 30 x 1.5 mm, so the actual thermostatic cartridges are generally that size. The document you posted (which is very nice BTW) indexes all the existing valves so it makes IMHO the (actually problematic) situation seem worse than it is (because the actual diffusion of this or that type of valve isn't taken into consideration). Check this: https://support.tado.com/hc/it/articles/212050583-Con-quali-valvole-sono-compatibili-le-Teste-Termostatiche-Intelligenti-Ho-bisogno-di-un-adattatore-per-montarle-correttamente- https://support.tado.com/hc/it/articles/212050583-Con-quali-... basically all M30x1.5 are not listed as they are directly compatible. Then, 11 most common types are listed, and for the first 6 ones (the most common among the non-M30x1.5) the adapter is included. From personal experience (anecdata, so take it with a grain of salt) the "standard" M30x1.5 + Danfoss + Giacomini + Caleffi cover really nearly 100% of what people can find in their home. These other guys here say that a basic set of adapters cover 90%: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5KOMFlDbhE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5KOMFlDbhE https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/common-data-files/static/2017-05+Leaflet+for+Valves+Adaptators-WEB.pdf https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/common-data-files/static/...

rmoriz 8y ago
This is not true, because most homes are built before 1998. The vendors you name had other threads prior to 1998. This also causes a lot of trouble because "old" and "new" does not match, even when from the same vendor. The only way is to change the valve (very expensive) our buy extra adapters. This is also true if you break an existing thermostat: You can't purchase them anymore. You'll have to buy one of the "new" standard and pick on of the "solutions" mentioned above. For example I'm living in an early-1990s building equipped with the old Oventrop M 30 x 1.0. I just bought a smart thermostat which claims to be compatbile with Oventrop but turned out only with the post 1998 Oventrop M 30 x 1.5 …