8 ms·

Flattr does not work on smallish blogs

18 points by preek 16y ago

Udo 16y ago
Well, it's kind of obvious why it doesn't work. I visit a lot of blogs and can't remember that I ever stumbled across a flatter gadget. To be fair, I probably wouldn't have noticed anyway. Still, I believe the idea behind flattr is valuable. It will probably be a long time until it gains any traction, let's hope they hold out that long. Because chances are Facebook WILL copy this and it will be an instant success then.
- parbo 16y ago
  Paying to hit "Like"? That is a really good idea actually. Wouldn't it also make sense if Flattr-ing something also "liked" it on Facebook? Something like posting "XYZ Flattrd foo.com" on XYZ's wall. That would also bring marketing to the Flattr concept.
  - Udo 16y ago
    Exactly!
  - viraptor 16y ago
    They already do that on both Facebook and Twitter. Connecting your account is optional though. http://twitter.com/#search?q=flattred http://twitter.com/#search?q=flattred
  - AndrewMoffat 16y ago
    That would be an interesting idea. It might be tricky to make sure that everyone understood that "Liking" now meant "donating", but maybe only if a user has added money to his "Like account" would it really change anyways. Then Facebook would have the onus of introducing "like payments", instead of each site implementing Flattr, like I described here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1853825 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1853825
StavrosK 16y ago
Extrapolation does not work on smallish sample sizes.
- preek 16y ago
  I know about that and pointed that out. Anyway, do you mathematically see a good reason to keep advertising a service from the sample it does not work in?
  - StavrosK 16y ago
    I'm afraid I don't understand the question :/ My issue was with the submission title, mostly.
roschdal 16y ago
The fact that this blog hasn't received any Flattrs in 10000 pageviews doesn't mean that Flattr does not work for other types of content. I have used Flattr for a while on http://freeciv.net http://freeciv.net and have received over 200 flattrs recently.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- preek 16y ago
  I'm glad you made some revenue and/or publicity via flattr. But may I say that I pointed to that in my article: "By no means does my experiment imply any significant validity for the general public, but I see no reason to keep the advertising buttons on my blog, either." BTW: Thanks for that link. It has been quite some time that I played FreeCIV. To make it playable online is a nice feat. Thanks for that!
kilian 16y ago
It seems to work reasonably well* on my small blog :) anecdote, data etc. *With reasonably well I mean I make about break even, which is good enough for me.
preek 16y ago
I had to redirect traffic from my WP installation to posterous. My server was not able to take the load. Thanks HN for the interest in my humble thoughts.
mrkurt 16y ago
Flattr fascinates me, but it has this big problem. A site like the one I work for isn't going to use it because the Flattr user base isn't big enough to make it worthwhile. They need big sites onboard, though, or they'll never get the coverage necessary to make it worthwhile. I think the title for this could be "Flattr doesn't work because there aren't enough Flattr users".
- AndrewMoffat 16y ago
  Sounds like a very difficult wall to get over. I imagine most people will hear about Flattr through a blog or some service accepting payments with it. Only if they're curious enough about it will they go find out what it is, and then once they understand that they work of registering is so that other people can have their money, they have to still be compelled to signup and use it. Unless each blog/service using it makes it explicit that they're accepting flattr donations, but nobody wants to be that site sounding like they're begging for handouts.
mischa_u 16y ago
As I don't see any flattr gadget on the dispatched.ch blog, maybe the author forgot to enable it explains the lack of results?
- preek 16y ago
  "but I see no reason to keep the advertising buttons on my blog, either" I disabled them today, just before posting. Thanks for letting me know, anyway^^
pornel 16y ago
I wish I could show Flattr button only to Flattr users.
- preek 16y ago
  Great point! If that were possible, I'd put them back online. It wouldn't "spread the word", but hey - right now I'd be doing advertisement without benefits.
3pt14159 16y ago
Why doesn't flattr just give people a javascript bookmark? Just click on the bookmark and it will register that site as being flattred, once a site has 10 (or a hundred) flattr hits flattr the company can attempt to contact the site owner. The problem with all these micropayment sites is that only 0.01% of site visitors use them and only 0.01% of websites use them, so the odds of actually coming across a micropayments site, even if you have a flatter account, is so low that it is silly. Also, there should be a public aspect when I flattr someone, I should be able to do it privately if I want to, but if my friends are following my flattr. That does two things, it makes it transparent that flattr is not just a scam, because if there are 1000 people that flattr a xkcd comic and xkcd comes out and says that he never got a dime then criminal charges can be pressed. The second thing it does is it shows which sites are actually worth checking out. I assume that there is going to be a long tail of flattrs, to handle that flattr should keep a pool of money set aside that earns interest, that way they can give someone the net present value of their flattrs when they finally get their cheque 3 years later.
- dot 16y ago
  that's a really good idea. i'd even fire off an email/tweet to the site owner after the first flattr. only takes a few minutes and if it gets out of hand it can be done automatically.
- StavrosK 16y ago
  Because they don't let you use it unless you flattr people, i.e. unless you pay as well.
- eileentso 16y ago
  Great suggestion/comment (and example with xkcd). Have a look at the public Flattr wishlist which includes a bookmarklet to drag-n-drop for people to use -- https://flattr.com/wishlist https://flattr.com/wishlist We'll try to contact as many people as possible (more straightforward with specific websites/pages, harder to achieve for say comments on a blog post, etc). Please keep the feedback and suggestions coming!
citricsquid 16y ago
http://notch.tumblr.com http://notch.tumblr.com uses it too.
sp4rki 16y ago
I don't think flattr will work just because this type of service needs a huge user base and a huge customer base to work. IMO the best thing that could happen to flattr, is being bought by Facebook. Facebook has the users and the range to actually make this work, though I doubt the overhead is worth it for them.
noglorp 16y ago
I really think Flattr is misapplied to blogs, to be honest. I don't want to go around giving micro payments to bloggers to be honest. The things that make me want to Flattr are, well, THINGS. Applications, tech demos, pieces of art. Things that make me have fun and feel appreciative, rather than things that make me go "Oh, that is useful information" or "Oh, that is an insightful comment".

18 points by preek 16y ago

Udo 16y ago

Well, it's kind of obvious why it doesn't work. I visit a lot of blogs and can't remember that I ever stumbled across a flatter gadget. To be fair, I probably wouldn't have noticed anyway. Still, I believe the idea behind flattr is valuable. It will probably be a long time until it gains any traction, let's hope they hold out that long. Because chances are Facebook WILL copy this and it will be an instant success then.

parbo 16y ago
Paying to hit "Like"? That is a really good idea actually. Wouldn't it also make sense if Flattr-ing something also "liked" it on Facebook? Something like posting "XYZ Flattrd foo.com" on XYZ's wall. That would also bring marketing to the Flattr concept.
- Udo 16y ago
  Exactly!
- viraptor 16y ago
  They already do that on both Facebook and Twitter. Connecting your account is optional though. http://twitter.com/#search?q=flattred http://twitter.com/#search?q=flattred
- AndrewMoffat 16y ago
  That would be an interesting idea. It might be tricky to make sure that everyone understood that "Liking" now meant "donating", but maybe only if a user has added money to his "Like account" would it really change anyways. Then Facebook would have the onus of introducing "like payments", instead of each site implementing Flattr, like I described here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1853825 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1853825

StavrosK 16y ago

Extrapolation does not work on smallish sample sizes.

preek 16y ago
I know about that and pointed that out. Anyway, do you mathematically see a good reason to keep advertising a service from the sample it does not work in?
- StavrosK 16y ago
  I'm afraid I don't understand the question :/ My issue was with the submission title, mostly.

roschdal 16y ago

The fact that this blog hasn't received any Flattrs in 10000 pageviews doesn't mean that Flattr does not work for other types of content. I have used Flattr for a while on http://freeciv.net http://freeciv.net and have received over 200 flattrs recently.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
preek 16y ago
I'm glad you made some revenue and/or publicity via flattr. But may I say that I pointed to that in my article: "By no means does my experiment imply any significant validity for the general public, but I see no reason to keep the advertising buttons on my blog, either." BTW: Thanks for that link. It has been quite some time that I played FreeCIV. To make it playable online is a nice feat. Thanks for that!

kilian 16y ago

It seems to work reasonably well* on my small blog :) anecdote, data etc. *With reasonably well I mean I make about break even, which is good enough for me.

preek 16y ago

I had to redirect traffic from my WP installation to posterous. My server was not able to take the load. Thanks HN for the interest in my humble thoughts.

mrkurt 16y ago

Flattr fascinates me, but it has this big problem. A site like the one I work for isn't going to use it because the Flattr user base isn't big enough to make it worthwhile. They need big sites onboard, though, or they'll never get the coverage necessary to make it worthwhile. I think the title for this could be "Flattr doesn't work because there aren't enough Flattr users".

AndrewMoffat 16y ago
Sounds like a very difficult wall to get over. I imagine most people will hear about Flattr through a blog or some service accepting payments with it. Only if they're curious enough about it will they go find out what it is, and then once they understand that they work of registering is so that other people can have their money, they have to still be compelled to signup and use it. Unless each blog/service using it makes it explicit that they're accepting flattr donations, but nobody wants to be that site sounding like they're begging for handouts.

mischa_u 16y ago

As I don't see any flattr gadget on the dispatched.ch blog, maybe the author forgot to enable it explains the lack of results?

preek 16y ago
"but I see no reason to keep the advertising buttons on my blog, either" I disabled them today, just before posting. Thanks for letting me know, anyway^^

pornel 16y ago

I wish I could show Flattr button only to Flattr users.

preek 16y ago
Great point! If that were possible, I'd put them back online. It wouldn't "spread the word", but hey - right now I'd be doing advertisement without benefits.

3pt14159 16y ago

Why doesn't flattr just give people a javascript bookmark? Just click on the bookmark and it will register that site as being flattred, once a site has 10 (or a hundred) flattr hits flattr the company can attempt to contact the site owner. The problem with all these micropayment sites is that only 0.01% of site visitors use them and only 0.01% of websites use them, so the odds of actually coming across a micropayments site, even if you have a flatter account, is so low that it is silly. Also, there should be a public aspect when I flattr someone, I should be able to do it privately if I want to, but if my friends are following my flattr. That does two things, it makes it transparent that flattr is not just a scam, because if there are 1000 people that flattr a xkcd comic and xkcd comes out and says that he never got a dime then criminal charges can be pressed. The second thing it does is it shows which sites are actually worth checking out. I assume that there is going to be a long tail of flattrs, to handle that flattr should keep a pool of money set aside that earns interest, that way they can give someone the net present value of their flattrs when they finally get their cheque 3 years later.

dot 16y ago
that's a really good idea. i'd even fire off an email/tweet to the site owner after the first flattr. only takes a few minutes and if it gets out of hand it can be done automatically.
StavrosK 16y ago
Because they don't let you use it unless you flattr people, i.e. unless you pay as well.
eileentso 16y ago
Great suggestion/comment (and example with xkcd). Have a look at the public Flattr wishlist which includes a bookmarklet to drag-n-drop for people to use -- https://flattr.com/wishlist https://flattr.com/wishlist We'll try to contact as many people as possible (more straightforward with specific websites/pages, harder to achieve for say comments on a blog post, etc). Please keep the feedback and suggestions coming!

citricsquid 16y ago

http://notch.tumblr.com http://notch.tumblr.com uses it too.

sp4rki 16y ago

I don't think flattr will work just because this type of service needs a huge user base and a huge customer base to work. IMO the best thing that could happen to flattr, is being bought by Facebook. Facebook has the users and the range to actually make this work, though I doubt the overhead is worth it for them.

noglorp 16y ago

I really think Flattr is misapplied to blogs, to be honest. I don't want to go around giving micro payments to bloggers to be honest. The things that make me want to Flattr are, well, THINGS. Applications, tech demos, pieces of art. Things that make me have fun and feel appreciative, rather than things that make me go "Oh, that is useful information" or "Oh, that is an insightful comment".