4 ms·

Is this just an American thing? Healthcare funding, or something? I've never been to SF, but I've visited NYC, and the subway there feels like stepping in to a

Is this just an American thing? Healthcare funding, or something? I've never been to SF, but I've visited NYC, and the subway there feels like stepping in to a horror movie. During a two week visit I saw people passing out and being ignored (I was the only one attempting to help), individuals swinging around bricks in socks, and various other obvious examples of severely mentally ill individuals. In London I've never seen anything like it. It genuinely felt like stepping in to some sort of twilight zone. Compounded by the fact that other commuters seemed jaded, as if it was normal to be regularly surrounded by individuals who act more like rogue AIs than human beings.

twblalock 8y ago
I think it really boils down to American voters having lower standards and being resigned to the fact that these things happen. I don't think a single politician has lost re-election over it recently. The last time there was a significant voter backlash over crime in New York was when Giuliani was elected mayor in the 1990s, and crime was a lot worse back then. I suspect that elected officials would feel significant pressure to act if this happened in London on a regular basis.
chaostheory 8y ago
I feel that this somewhat due to the lack of mental health funding in the US. It's one issue that affects so many areas such as homelessness and crime, yet funding mental health programs is just not popular with voters and politicians in the US.
- JustSomeNobody 8y ago
  Anything that even resembles taking care of other people is not popular in the US. There's no "preventative" care for people in here, either. We foster and think that a percentage of the children taken from their parents didn't need to happen if the parents were able to get help before it got bad enough for the children to be removed. But, oh wow, when I tell people my thoughts on that they look at me like I'm about to steal their wallet!
thatswrong0 8y ago
The funny thing is that, to me, the NYC system seems to work so much better than San Francisco’s, based on my usage of it. And NYC also has a much bigger police presence than San Francisco, which results in it feeling like a much safer city.
- louisswiss 8y ago
  Agreed. NYC didn't feel much worse than London or Berlin. Even late at night. Public transport in SF was scary.
- barrow-rider 8y ago
  I'll also second this. Not as clean or orderly as the DC metro, but for the most part the NYC subway was easy and simple to get around in. Only time I've ever been jumped or harassed on a train was in Madrid.
satori99 8y ago
Surely it must be. In my country, our recently former Prime Minister was known to regularly catch trains while going about his government business. Sometimes with a cabinet minister. Sometime on his own. And rarely, if ever, with a visible security detail. https://www.google.com/search?q=Malcolm+Turnbull+train&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=Malcolm+Turnbull+train&tbm=i...
m1sta_ 8y ago
It’s due to a failure to enforce the law. The reason for that failure is needs to be addressed.
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  Is it really though? I feel like Americans regularly say things like this (guns is another similar topic) which only reflects an inability to think many steps down the line from the outcome. There is something deeper at play and I would suspect that it has to do with economic insecurity and lack of opportunity which is further compounded by a lack of education and social cohesion in general. American values are all wrong. You only need to look at the Black Friday mayhem for an example.
  - selestify 8y ago
    How would one go about fixing such abstract things as social cohesion and societal values?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - rorykoehler 8y ago
      A new social contract that distributes wealth more evenly. A focus on education, nutrition and healthy urban environments. Supporting parents so they can support their children (2 working parents is an absolute recipe for disaster). All the normal stuff we know we should be doing but don't. If you are interested in the importance of childhood and parenting there is a great doc series on Netflix called "The beginning of life".
      - gaius 8y ago
        America had that chance but Bernie was stabbed in the back. Maybe AOC can deliver.
        8y ago
diogenescynic 8y ago
In this case it seems more like a Bay Area thing where the politicians and bleeding hearts want to be soft on crime but then it quickly becomes a downward spiral... For example, cops don’t do anything about most property crimes and theft and treat it as an insurance problem, they’ll tell you to report it to 311. Then they stop caring about trespassing and loitering and litering. Then they let junkies on BART and other criminals who don’t pay because “they don’t have anywhere else to go, have a heart.” So they’re constantly enabling this criminal behavior by preventing any real consequences. Because the voters don’t demand change, the District Attorneys and Judges largely do nothing about it either. I’m a social democrat but San Francisco is a cesspit. Being liberal/progressive shouldn’t mean letting junkies take over you city, defrcate in the street, and destroy the public life for everyone else. We’ve got to start creating some boundaries for this behavior and that starts with actual consequences for crimes. I think BART might have to be fined for them to take it seriously.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
A big part of it is that people don't want to cause themselves trouble. It's not often that I see people having fights in public here in Australia, but on the odd occasion that people are misbehaving, I really don't want to cause myself trouble and hurt myself. I'm not inclined to get bottled or stabbed for trying to help someone out. On the other hand, if I do come across someone passed out in public who looks a bit fucked up, I will make sure they're alive and at least vaguely responsive, and roll them into the recovery position. I wouldn't call an ambulance though because they're expensive and I don't want to cause someone a $2000 bill because they were just drunk and sleeping it off.
louisswiss 8y ago
> individuals who act more like rogue AIs than human beings. That's a chilling but very accurate description. I don't have children, but I doubt I could live in SF/LA/NYC with kids. There isn't a major European city I'd say that for.

twblalock 8y ago

I think it really boils down to American voters having lower standards and being resigned to the fact that these things happen. I don't think a single politician has lost re-election over it recently. The last time there was a significant voter backlash over crime in New York was when Giuliani was elected mayor in the 1990s, and crime was a lot worse back then. I suspect that elected officials would feel significant pressure to act if this happened in London on a regular basis.

chaostheory 8y ago

I feel that this somewhat due to the lack of mental health funding in the US. It's one issue that affects so many areas such as homelessness and crime, yet funding mental health programs is just not popular with voters and politicians in the US.

JustSomeNobody 8y ago
Anything that even resembles taking care of other people is not popular in the US. There's no "preventative" care for people in here, either. We foster and think that a percentage of the children taken from their parents didn't need to happen if the parents were able to get help before it got bad enough for the children to be removed. But, oh wow, when I tell people my thoughts on that they look at me like I'm about to steal their wallet!

thatswrong0 8y ago

The funny thing is that, to me, the NYC system seems to work so much better than San Francisco’s, based on my usage of it. And NYC also has a much bigger police presence than San Francisco, which results in it feeling like a much safer city.

louisswiss 8y ago
Agreed. NYC didn't feel much worse than London or Berlin. Even late at night. Public transport in SF was scary.
barrow-rider 8y ago
I'll also second this. Not as clean or orderly as the DC metro, but for the most part the NYC subway was easy and simple to get around in. Only time I've ever been jumped or harassed on a train was in Madrid.

satori99 8y ago

Surely it must be. In my country, our recently former Prime Minister was known to regularly catch trains while going about his government business. Sometimes with a cabinet minister. Sometime on his own. And rarely, if ever, with a visible security detail. https://www.google.com/search?q=Malcolm+Turnbull+train&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=Malcolm+Turnbull+train&tbm=i...

m1sta_ 8y ago

It’s due to a failure to enforce the law. The reason for that failure is needs to be addressed.

rorykoehler 8y ago
Is it really though? I feel like Americans regularly say things like this (guns is another similar topic) which only reflects an inability to think many steps down the line from the outcome. There is something deeper at play and I would suspect that it has to do with economic insecurity and lack of opportunity which is further compounded by a lack of education and social cohesion in general. American values are all wrong. You only need to look at the Black Friday mayhem for an example.
- selestify 8y ago
  How would one go about fixing such abstract things as social cohesion and societal values?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - rorykoehler 8y ago
    A new social contract that distributes wealth more evenly. A focus on education, nutrition and healthy urban environments. Supporting parents so they can support their children (2 working parents is an absolute recipe for disaster). All the normal stuff we know we should be doing but don't. If you are interested in the importance of childhood and parenting there is a great doc series on Netflix called "The beginning of life".
    - gaius 8y ago
      America had that chance but Bernie was stabbed in the back. Maybe AOC can deliver.
      - 8y ago

diogenescynic 8y ago

In this case it seems more like a Bay Area thing where the politicians and bleeding hearts want to be soft on crime but then it quickly becomes a downward spiral... For example, cops don’t do anything about most property crimes and theft and treat it as an insurance problem, they’ll tell you to report it to 311. Then they stop caring about trespassing and loitering and litering. Then they let junkies on BART and other criminals who don’t pay because “they don’t have anywhere else to go, have a heart.” So they’re constantly enabling this criminal behavior by preventing any real consequences. Because the voters don’t demand change, the District Attorneys and Judges largely do nothing about it either. I’m a social democrat but San Francisco is a cesspit. Being liberal/progressive shouldn’t mean letting junkies take over you city, defrcate in the street, and destroy the public life for everyone else. We’ve got to start creating some boundaries for this behavior and that starts with actual consequences for crimes. I think BART might have to be fined for them to take it seriously.

toomanybeersies 8y ago

A big part of it is that people don't want to cause themselves trouble. It's not often that I see people having fights in public here in Australia, but on the odd occasion that people are misbehaving, I really don't want to cause myself trouble and hurt myself. I'm not inclined to get bottled or stabbed for trying to help someone out. On the other hand, if I do come across someone passed out in public who looks a bit fucked up, I will make sure they're alive and at least vaguely responsive, and roll them into the recovery position. I wouldn't call an ambulance though because they're expensive and I don't want to cause someone a $2000 bill because they were just drunk and sleeping it off.

louisswiss 8y ago

> individuals who act more like rogue AIs than human beings. That's a chilling but very accurate description. I don't have children, but I doubt I could live in SF/LA/NYC with kids. There isn't a major European city I'd say that for.